A Question before buying

[Mudbug]

I am going to make a couple of suggestions, and I hope that you will take them in the gentle manner they are intended.

You are shooting club-level IDPA matches with the gun you have. That is excellent. I have shot club level IDPA with a snub-nose Airweight .38, a S&W 642, and it was a challenge, to say the least.

Now, you want to move up to a gun that is going to be easier to use, and shoots as well as your very nice .22. And you are on a fixed income, so you are looking at what seems a good competition gun for not too much money: I just looked up an online vendor who has them ranging from ~$370-$500+, depending on the specific model.

How am I tracking?

I don’t know Canik. I have very limited first hand experience with any Turkish firearms, to be honest. Some shotguns, a couple of Mausers. What I think of when that name and nation come up in relation to firearms is, first: low priced firearms. Second: poor customer support, and frustrated customers. Third: variable quality control. Fourth: rave reviews from fans.

When I recommend a firearm to someone, there are a couple of things I like to know about it. Most important is that the brand and model have a reputation for working, and the company has a reputation of reliable customer support.

If you want to get a nice gun that shoots well and limit the chances that you will be frustrated by the gun, or by customer service, or by parts and accessory availability, I recommend that you look at a common gun. It may cost a bit more than the Canik you are thinking about, but I think your odds of still being happy with it in a month or a year will be greater.

One such IDPA perfect common gun is the Glock 17. A brand new Glock 17 costs about $500 from the same online vendor. Competition specific guns cost a bit more. Used ones cost a bit less. In the past year, I have purchased three used Glocks. Not one was over $400. Each one has been completely reliable, accurate, and easy to find accessories and whatever needed parts, including the SCD that helps prevent shooting ones self with their striker fired handgun. If you want your new gun to double as a concealed carry gun, many do carry the G17, but a G19 might be a bit easier to conceal.

Another common gun to consider is the Smith & Wesson M&P series. Earlier in the thread, I recommended the SD9VE. It would work as well, and probably be fine, but I have to admit that I recommended that gun as a knee-jerk reaction to the word “Canik” in your initial post. Now, having actually looked at the guns and some of the prices and applications, I stand by my SD9VE recommendation on the low end of the price spectrum, but add the M&P line as well. A basic full-sized M&P 9mm is about $430. An M&P Pro is less than $600.

To quote someone who is no longer with us, common guns become common for a reason. Those guns all work. They all have reliable customer support. They all have commonly needed accessories and parts readily available, and lots of people around know how to maintain them. I would submit that the most common guns at your club matches probably come from those two product lines and companies, with the HK, CZ, and some others making inroads.

Seriously, though. I recommend that you try out a few more guns from more common product lines, and seriously consider purchasing one of them.

Thank You Dualist! Your tracking is perfect. You know where I stand.

Before I continue, let me say that I have really appreciated many of the constructive comments I've gotten in this thread. You guys are saying what you know and not trying to blow me up about your own favorite weapon. How many times have I seen that in the past. I expected that, and set my mind to try to read past much of it. It's here too to a small degree, but the thinking you folks have put through to me is sound and very helpful.

Now, I'll discuss your thoughts. As I wrote in the last post, I think I saw the very first negative comment about the Canik in this thread earlier. Everything has been very positive...except the part about feedback from the sales and manufacturing sites. Dualist, you hit the target dead center when you talked about that. It makes a lot of sense to look instead to the old reliables that have been around for a while and that people have been pleased with.

I mentioned my SW22 VICTORY target pistol. I bought that one on my own judgement, while everyone I talked to or read from was advising either the Ruger Mark Series, particular the Mark IV, or the Browning Buckmaster. I kept hearing that the Victory was still too new to believe what I read from owners and reviewers. I am here to tell you that I've now shot all three pistols, and the VICTORY is very much the gun for me. But it's a Smith and Wesson, the oldest reliable pistol manufacturers in the nation. It's not a Turkish Canik, that everyone seems to think is cloaned from one of the Walther models.

I know NOTHING about the Glock guns. Iv'e never even shot one. I am thinking that most of those I have seen are in the $6-700 range. The Canik that I hae been looking at .... the TP9SX sells for less than $450 in several places. A $600 gun is getting out of my budget. That's for a NEW gun. I have not given any thought to used guns. I find myself wondering why someone would sell a good reliable gun if they were very happy with it. Maybe to move to a much better one, I suppose, as they progress with the competition shooting. But how can I be sure that this is the reason, and not that I would be getting a lemon version of a normally very good gun.

My daughter is a Probation and Parole officer for the State of Louisiana, and she has two Glock 45's. One smaller than the other. I can't tell you which she has. But she likes the bigger one much better. Her hubby recently retired from Homeland Security. His guns are Glocks as well, but I don't remember exactly what he shoots.

I will hold off on the Canik's for a while and look further at Glocks. I don't necessarily want a carry gun as much as I want longer sight radius at this point. The old snubnose 38 serves me fine as my carry gun. Small, compact, and healthy enough to do some damage if I need it. It's easily maintained and accurate enough at normal short shooting distances. But it's a real pain in the pazozza in competition, even when I am the only short barreled revolver shooting that day.

Thanks once again for you thoughts.

Joe

[Duelist]

To answer, in part, your concern about used guns: people are fickle. In this hobby, and it is a hobby for many, some buy and sell guns constantly. I have seen someone buy a new gun, love on it, talk it up, buy accessories and custom parts, get it set up perfectly, and then sell it with less than a thousand rounds through it so they can get the next new shiny thing that caught their eye. That happens all the time. It maybe something they are just bored with, or they don’t have room in the safe, or they needed to pay a bill. I very rarely buy a new gun. Most don’t shoot enough to wear one out - though that does happen, most just don’t. It is a rare thing for me to see a used gun that is too worn by shooting for me to consider purchasing. Most wear I see on most guns is superficial, or purely cosmetic.

If your daughter and SIL live close enough, maybe you could ask to go shoot with them, and try out their Glocks. If not, most indoor ranges that rent guns will have some in their pool of rentals.

Last summer, I bought a lightly used Glock 26, a compact concealment gun. It looked like it had barely been used, yet it was at least 15 years old. I cleaned and lubed it, and then ran over 2000 rounds through it over the course of 6 months without cleaning or adding lube. Other than a very few ammunition caused bobbles, it never malfunctioned and doesn’t look any more worn internally than it did before. There is a bit of exterior wear from holsters and drawing practice and such that it did not have before. In fact, it has only ever had user and ammunition induced malfunctions: one limp wrist malfunction a couple of weeks ago by an inexperienced shooter, and my long right thumb occasionally touching the slide lock lever when it shouldn’t be and causing it to not lock to the rear on an empty magazine.

All of that is to say, most used guns are far from worn out, or problem children. It’s smart to stick with new if you don’t have personal experience or a trustworthy friend who knows what to look for to shop with, but even new guns can have problems. Good used guns can save you a lot of money, as long as you don’t end up with that rare lemon you mentioned. Again, stick with those “old reliables”, and the odds are in your favor, new or used.

[Mudbug]

A used Glock 17 is $400 and comes with the largest aftermarket support of any handgun.

What happens when Canik comes out with an all new design in 3 years? Or abandons the US market? Or moves CS back to Istanbul? Will you still be able to find spare parts and magazines for this model?

Gotcha!

[Bigghoss]

There are currently TWO Glock 19 pistols listed for sale in the classified section of this forum for under $450, shipping included. Add whatever your local shop would charge to transfer them to you (usually $20-50) and you're in buisness.

You can also search Armslist.com and you can probably find one local in that same price range.

Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore has police trade in M&P 9mm pistols for like $360ish I think. I know they were under $400.

[john c]

It sounds like you need to convince your daughter and son-in-law to let you shoot a Glock for father's day. Shoot it for a while, then make your decision.

Try combing Gunbroker. I just bought a new M&P 2.0 Compact 9mm for $390, shipped.

Before I bought a Canik, I'd get an SD9VE for $260 (currently on sale at Brownells) and an Apex Action Enhancement Kit for $55. This is likely the cheapest option for high quality pistol. (Brownells has cheap shipping on firearms, too)

If you're on a budget, cheap guns might be too expensive in the long run. As others have stated, if you get a lemon and have to pay to ship the gun back to the importer for service, the cost will rise above comparable domestic models. S&W, on the other hand, will fix or replace your gun for you, and cover the shipping. Also, magazines and parts will be available for the next couple of decades. Ruger also has great customer service, but I can't comment on their current crop of centerfire auto pistols.

Good luck!

[NerdAlert]

There are currently TWO Glock 19 pistols listed for sale in the classified section of this forum for under $450, shipping included. Add whatever your local shop would charge to transfer them to you (usually $20-50) and you're in buisness.

You can also search Armslist.com and you can probably find one local in that same price range.

Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore has police trade in M&P 9mm pistols for like $360ish I think. I know they were under $400.

You can also join GSSF for a two year membership for $60, get a coupon, and buy a NEW Glock for much lower than retail.You are allowed one Glock purchase a year. They also have matches where free guns are quite often among the prizes.


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[Stephanie B]

So every gun magazine is being honest when they say Taurus makes good firearms?

There was a post elsewhere some time ago by someone who almost got fired from the staff of The American Rifleman over the mandated positive review of the Colt All-American 2000.

[Duelist]

There are currently TWO Glock 19 pistols listed for sale in the classified section of this forum for under $450, shipping included. Add whatever your local shop would charge to transfer them to you (usually $20-50) and you're in buisness.

You can also search Armslist.com and you can probably find one local in that same price range.

Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore has police trade in M&P 9mm pistols for like $360ish I think. I know they were under $400.

Barely used M&P 2.0 9mm (Thumb Safety version) with new night sights for $400 shipped in the classifieds as well. Listed under “culling the herd”.

[scw2]

A $600 gun is getting out of my budget. That's for a NEW gun. I have not given any thought to used guns.

I apologize for my laziness, but I forget whether your original post mentioned specific caliber or whether you wanted a semi-auto only or not. That said, you can get used guns that are LE trade-ins that might have varying degrees of finish wear, but are often not shot too much.

Recently I've seen many older generation glocks for under $400. Also I've seen brand new M&Ps (I think Gen1) in that range as well, and I'm sure there are trade ins that go for even lower. Plus I've seen several S&W revolver trade-in deals for ~$300-400 as well. One thing to consider in addition to the prior mentioned concerns about the Canik being drop safe and their CS is the aftermarket support for glocks, M&Ps and S&W revolvers will generally be much better.

I can't begin to tell you how much easier and cheaper (mags under half the price!) it was to find stuff like reliable mags and well-regarded custom holsters when I switched from a CZ to a glock, and CZ is a pretty well known brand especially for competition.

[Mudbug]

You can also join GSSF for a two year membership for $60, get a coupon, and buy a NEW Glock for much lower than retail.You are allowed one Glock purchase a year. They also have matches where free guns are quite often among the prizes.


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Wow! I am so happy that I asked my question on this forum site. It's going to take me a week to check out all the options that have been mentioned to this point, and I know that more will be coming in for a few days.

The GSSF (Glock Foundation) is a great idea. Prices are very attractive. One question: They say: Eligible for purchase is (second option)

• "New ‘multi-year’ members (2 Year, 3 Year, 5 Year and Lifetime members) in possession of the new double-card membership form. Not sure what the Double Card Membership Form is. Is it a membership card that proves 2 years or more?"

• Secondly, The next paragraph says "No person can purchase any type new GSSF membership and then instantly purchase a pistol on this program." I don't understand the double talk. I suspect that they are saying that either one year members or multiple year members may participate, but no one can get the first purchase before a year has passed. Am I right?

Where or how do I join the GSSF? Sounds like a wonderful option, no matter when I want to buy a gun in the future.