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Thread: Lawsuit Filed Against Officers Who Responded To Pulse Terror Attack

  1. #11
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    Seminole Texas
    So much wrong with this in the sense that "get sued for doing your job, get sued because someone thinks you didn't do your job."

    Aside from that, super lawyer here, needs to review the case of Joseph Lozito and how courts rule on applying legal warranties of protection to the public.

  2. #12
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    Sep 2014
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    Minnesota
    Yup, one more news story that makes me super glad I'm not a cop. To those who are, my sincere thanks for doing the job you do and putting up with the resultant insane bullshit.

  3. #13
    Fuckin’ A this is getting out of hand.

    The same people giving the Orlando LEOs grief for not charging in are the same who are defending the Coward of Broward for not charging in. Dubya Tee Eff folks, make up your minds.

    I’m waiting for the day a department in a sizeable city stands up and says “You know what? SCREW IT, police your own crap and let us know how it goes.”
    "There is no timer in a gunfight. However there is another guy trying to shoot you, and he's probably in a hurry."

  4. #14
    More failure to realize society just can't have some things BOTH ways.

    You either get cops there to hunt predators or not. Full stop.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  5. #15
    100% Retro Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionsAndDragons View Post
    More failure to realize society just can't have some things BOTH ways.

    You either get cops there to hunt predators or not. Full stop.
    And whichever way it works out, the cops were wrong.
    You can never beat a monkey in a poo flinging contest.

  6. #16
    AIWB Cultist Lon's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
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    Dayton, Ohio
    From the debrief I heard, they should be suing the fire department and not the cops. Not that I agree with the lawsuit, but if youíre going to pick someone to vilify letís pick the right target.
    Last edited by Lon; 06-12-2018 at 01:00 PM.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  7. #17
    Why would the fire department be responsible? My uninformed impression from articles (admittedly a poor source) was that the decision to pull back and delay entry by PD was a major contributing factor to how it turned out.

  8. #18
    No time to search it out now but wasn't there some pretty good intel in the original incident thread from a PF member who is a fire fighter in Orlando regarding FD's role in the event?
    As to the lawsuit: the message to anybody in emergency service is that you will be judged solely on the outcome of the event. What was reasonable, appropriate, or even possible is being shoved aside in the interest of satisfying the emotionally driven desire to have a unicorns and butterflies outcome.

  9. #19
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    Texas
    From what I read on this forum, I get the idea that city planners are encouraging law enforcement trainers to deemphasize assertive actions like chasing criminals on foot or in cars. The reason is to avoid confrontations. One nationally famous magazine credits Dallas' former Chief Davis for turning Dallas PD into a model of excellence in this regard. So, if you train cops not to take assertive action and risks, then they will then stand and watch if such is policy. That's where we're headed.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Guy View Post
    No time to search it out now but wasn't there some pretty good intel in the original incident thread from a PF member who is a fire fighter in Orlando regarding FD's role in the event?
    Thanks, I had forgotten about that. I went through that thread and copied the comments from that relevant PF member below in case anyone else is interested.

    It was a chaotic 3 hour scene. Multiple reports of additional shooters, devices being placed at hospitals, shots fired at the closest level 1 trauma center, two hospitals placed on black ( not taking anymore victims). OPD was on point and our MCI systems worked. I was proud to work for the city of Orlando last night, I will elaborate more when I can.
    Thanks for the positive vibes from everyone. We deployed two MCI trailers one from OFD for 150 victims and one from OCFD for 250 victims. Florida South hospital is an additional three miles away and is capable of performing as a a level one trauma center. Transport distance from treatment sector too ORMC was less than a half mile, the scene was practically on top of the hospital. We staged 15 rescues on a constant basis. I'm sure everyone's watched the video of the initial response and shots fired, if you look in the background you can see the bay door for Engine 5, the nightclub was the next block over from Station 5. OPD delivered multiple patients too us from the hot zone via F150... Straight up load and go for OPD, dropped at triage, then treatment , then transport, then rescues were put back in the line up.

    A couple points


    1) that CNN timeline is missing about 10 incidents that caused multiple relocations, multiple reported attackers, multiple "devices" at nearby trauma centers, reported active shooter at ORMC during incident.

    2) FD was on scene with in a minute of first shots fired, Engine 5 is located about 50 yards from the nightclub. The rest of the units staged away from scene.

    3) 43 Trauma alert Red where transported initially, the majority of victims where brought to triage location by OPD in pick up trucks.

    4) there was absolutely no delay in initial transport of victims.

    5) ORMC is located about 1/2 mile from incident. It's a world class level 1 Trauma center, it's also a Trauma Suregeon training school, the residents (5 of them) usually graduate in June meaning there were an extra 5 additional surgeons available. ORMC received and handled 43 Teauma patients within the first part of the incident ( I am being vague about times due to legal ramifications).

    6) the EOD response is an FD response. We have sworn PD/FD/Arson /EOD guys on duty. The response due to reported "multiple devices" was swift.

    7) I will reiterate that OPD was on point last night, they performed at a high level all around. OPD SWAT response was very fast, OCSO was also on scene quickly and so was there SWAT team.

    8) the victim numbers being reported do not take into account the number of walking wounded that ran/walked to ORMC.

    9) the club is very small building, multiple tiny rooms/bars with tight door ways, very few exits, lots of dead end and closed rooms with no exterior doors/Windows. It's a maze inside, very dark.

    I will reiterate that there were a lot , I mean an epic shit ton of OPD o scene within minutes, but the report of multiple "devices" in, on, around the area changes things.

    Please if you have the time learn to use/apply pressure dressing/tourniquet. I have been lax in carrying my hemostatic gauze and SAWT T, shame on me. Also a good reminder to carry a bailout bag of EMS supplies in your car. There were 40-60 walking wounded strewn across Orange Ave trying to get to ORMC. We had no time to assist them, be prepared to be on your own and take care of yours.

    Also our response was 15 staged Rescue Co and 40 people in triage / treatment sector

    OPD Chief just revealed a couple points in time line that I was alluding too. 2 initial gun battles, one at entrance with off duty officer, next one was at the entrance inside club with multiple officers who pressed the attack repeatedly. The Terrorist asshole retreated too bathroom with hostages, OPD was able to evacuate and rescue Vic's from inside club, that's the large influx of Vic's we received. Shooter claimed bomb vest and multiple devices with Vic's in bathroom. Explosive breach into bathroom;failed, bearcat mechanical breach through bathroom wall. OPD rescued Vic's through bathroom wall, shooter came out through wall , gun battle, shooter dead. We received a couple of the Vic's that where rescued through the wall via OPD pick up truck. Vic's from inside stated that the shooter had " bomb vest on" . Some Vic's escaped later into incident on there own, we had to send crews away from triage treatment with OPD escorts to locate Vic's on back alleys.

    No more loss of life during negotiations, no shooting during negotiations.

    Building was built prior to that code. Also the reinforced section are only poured adjacent to Windows/doors and corners,that's also based on the assumption that the builder did everything to code. You can see courses of the block that are hollow in the picture.

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