Choosing a Birthday Rifle for my Daughter

[Palmetto]

I have a CZ 527 carbine in 223 that is a fantastic compact rifle. Very light to carry and very handy for sure.

Don’t tell anyone, but I only have the one magazine for it.

I also own two Tikka rifles and am quite fond of them. The bolt smoothness is amazing.

[SteveB]

Another thought: I’ve taught a couple of kids to shoot using a Winchester Model 70 Classic Compact in .243; only additions were 3rd sling swivel and a Leupold fixed 4X. With a short LOP, 20” sporter barrel, classic M70 action, wood & blue, it’s a great keeper first hunting rifle. They were made in .243, 7-08 and .308 and can be found around $500, frequently with a scope.

[SteveB]

Dupe post.

[frozentundra]

Keep in mind the after market for the Ruger Americans has been growing and Magpul is finally supposed to drop a stock for it. Ruger is dropping the crappy rotary mags for AR mags in 5.56 and mini 30 mags in 7.62 x39.

A big question is logistics - do you have other guns in 7,62x39 or would it be adding a caliber for you ?

I have a 527 and like it but the American ranch or predator would both be good choices at half the price which capsule be put to optics or ammo.

IME 5.56 for deer (white tails) is largely a matter of ammo selection.

I do. I also have a case or two of Golden Tiger 7.62x39 laying around somewhere, which a lot of people seem to be having really great luck with out of the American Ranch.

Ask her what she wants.

I will, but she doesn't know what's available. So I have to put together a short list to select from. I am also not sure that I know what's available, so I started this thread. We'll have to go shoot an AK, AR, and a really, really heavy 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun setup back to back. This will let her make a more informed decision about shooting characteristics of different rifle calibers. It's hard to make an informed decision when you have so little experience or knowledge of the market.

Admittedly, I’m biased toward bolt rifles for kids who are learning to hunt medium game, and I think the .243 is underrated in this regard. If you want to keep things cheap, there are deals out there:

https://www.cdnnsports.com/wincheste...l#.Wx5gN4opBvI

That would be a good option if we were primarily looking for a hunting rifle. However, our application will be primarily dedicated to long, high volume range trips and positional shooting practice. I think a lightweight gun that isn't fatiguing to hold and very mild recoil is paramount. If she tried to shoot 50 or 200 rounds through a light .243 I don't think she would enjoy it too much. Although, I've never personally fired a .243. The gun would very occasionally be used for hunting deer (one or two animals per year), but used for long range trips every weekend, and hiking around our rural property and public land quite a bit too (varmints).



It's just come to my attention that Ruger makes (or has made) a M77 MKII Hawkeye Compact with 16.5" barrel in both .223 and 7.62x39. They come in around 5.75 pounds and have a reduced length of pull. This partially restores my faith in humanity, but they seem hard to find and are expensive. At least this exists. I was beginning to worry about the human race.

[frozentundra]

Here's a thought I just had: This rifle isn't necessarily about 'teaching her to shoot' (she already knows how to shoot pretty darn well), but more of a vehicle for mastering the 'Art of the Rifle' as Cooper might have had it, keeping in mind that she is a very, very small person.

This includes living with and carrying the rifle as much as humanly possible, as we live in the rural countryside. It would be a "constant companion" rifle.

What is the best centerfire rifle for a very, very small person to 'Master' the 'Art of the Rifle' out to 300 yards, which is also capable of harvesting one to two deer per year at a VERY modest range? High round counts.

[Clusterfrack]

How about a 6.5 Grendel AR?

[willie]

I like the CZ. The extra 2.5 inches may give less muzzle blast and may increase muzzle velocity by 70 fps. I'm looking for something else nice to say about the rifle. That it's offerred in a youth version is a great point. I predict that pride of ownership will increase with the CZ as she matures. Also, the CZ's value may increase at a greater rate than the others. There's a reason that we're seeing the wonderful deals on rifles from the other brands which by the way no longer are producing classics. The CZ may be the classic of the future. About barrel length. For non tactical use the CZ's longer barrel is a moot point. I congratulate you on your child's success. I feel certain that it will transfer to all other areas of life.

[SteveB]

How about a 6.5 Grendel AR?

Or a 527 in 6.5G?

[MistWolf]

The problem with 16" barrels I calibers like the 243 or 308 or those with even larger case capacities, is that muzzle blast is really fierce. The muzzle blast of a 16" or 18" 243 is much more likely to cause flinch than its recoil. A 20", or better still a 22" barrel, is a better choice. If weight is a concern, go with a slender barrel profile.

One of the best ways to learn about trajectory and wind calls is to shoot subsonic 22 rimfire out to 100 yards.

[okie john]

Here's a thought I just had: This rifle isn't necessarily about 'teaching her to shoot' (she already knows how to shoot pretty darn well), but more of a vehicle for mastering the 'Art of the Rifle' as Cooper might have had it, keeping in mind that she is a very, very small person.

This includes living with and carrying the rifle as much as humanly possible, as we live in the rural countryside. It would be a "constant companion" rifle.

What is the best centerfire rifle for a very, very small person to 'Master' the 'Art of the Rifle' out to 300 yards, which is also capable of harvesting one to two deer per year at a VERY modest range? High round counts.

First of all, helping your daughter master the rifle is no small chore, and deciding to take her down that path makes you a slam dunk for Father of the Year. Well done.

Second, beware of Jeff Cooper. He had revolutionary ideas but he didn’t let them evolve and he worked hard to keep better ideas from replacing them. Ken Hackathorn, who taught under him at Gunsite, has said that Cooper refused to change any detail of his teaching because he felt it would lead people to doubt other things that he taught. I read Cooper’s books and articles as they were being published and I exchanged letters with him, which really restricted my thinking over the years. It’s only been in the last decade or so that I’ve begun to get out from under the cloud of his ideas.

With that in mind, the art of the rifle in 2018 centers on the Colt 6920 or equivalent, so I’d get her something like that. It meets the requirements you stated and she’ll grow into the slight extra weight before you know it.

The Art of the Rifle is probably the best book ever written on theory and form. I’d teach her those things from that book, then teach her TTPs as shown in “Green Eyes & Black Rifles” (https://www.amazon.com/Green-Eyes-Bl.../dp/0615166547).

She can—and should—learn the bolt gun later.


Okie John