Gun Safes 2018

[Spartan1980]

You’ve all given me quite a bit to think about.

1.) I don’t expect to be a high risk target for theft, but I’ll be situating the safe in such a way that at least 2 of 3 solid walls will be facing cinder block walls. It’ll also be bolted to the cement basement floor.

2.) I don’t anticipate a fire and I don’t have super high value arms. Insurance should be able to handle most of that replacement if not completely outright.

3.) Safe will need to be going down wood stairs for installation anyway, so it can’t be too heavy.

As much as I’d love to have the Rolls Royce of gun safes, my limited funds for my ballistic endeavors somewhat keep me in Liberty Safe territory. It may not be the best, but it’s a hell of a lot better than a Stack-On gun cabinet. So that’s probably what I’ll end up going with.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

Your situation would seem a good fit for one of these.

http://dakotasafe.com/Interloc_xp.html

[spinmove_]

So because most of their safes are rated UL that means their side walls can be cut? What other RSCs could you buy for far less that still fit guns reasonably?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[Grey]

So because most of their safes are rated UL that means their side walls can be cut? What other RSCs could you buy for far less that still fit guns reasonably?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

My understanding is that you need something that has a concrete fill between the inner and out wall. Otherwise a cordless saw with a metal cutting blade is supposedly able to rip right through the side. So you end up paying for a bunch of weight that doesn't really help you out in the long term. Also safe "fire ratings" may be bogus because the testing for such things are not regulated really. I was looking at a SecureIT and I may be spouting the Koolaid here, do some research on it and report back!

[farscott]

Another interesting piece of data is that most safes have the hinges on the outside, not the inside. You can cut the hinges off a safe and the door should not open without withdrawing the bolts. A design with internal hinges usually cannot have bolts that traverse the hinged side of the door.

[TGS]

So because most of their safes are rated UL that means their side walls can be cut? What other RSCs could you buy for far less that still fit guns reasonably?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

UL (Underwriter's Laboratory) is an accreditation body. A REAL safe carries a UL rating of TL15, which means it takes a minimum of 15 minutes by a professional using any tool they want to get in....but only for the door. TL15x6 means any six sides, not just the door. TL30, obviously, being 30 minutes.

RSC just means residential security container. It's not a "real" safe.

And yeah, using a saw you cut slice off the side of most store-bought gun safes within a minute or two. It takes 10-15 minutes using a cheap ass Dremel/imitation. I think an easy way of organizing gun safes is like this:

1) Cabinets/Lockers. This includes not only StackOn, but also the big-ass big-box store bought safes with gigantic locking lugs and whatnot like Cannon, Big Horn, or Winchester. You can pry them open just as easily as a Stack-On cabinet, because those big thick doors are actually the same thickness and will peel right back with a crowbar. They are the definition of swindling your customers into thinking they're buying something they're not. They'll protect against a smash and grab, but even an unskilled crew with simple tools can pry the door open.

2) RSCs with gypsum fireboard interior: These will usually have a steel plate door. These can't really be pried if installed properly. You can cut the side open. These are sufficient against smash-and-grabs, or a crew bringing a basic tool set (sledge, crowbar). People usually aren't running around with power saws. Good quality safes in this category are made by Gardall, AMSEC, and Ft Knox for starters.

3) RSCs with concrete fill. Steel plate door, but also with a concrete fill for fire protection instead of gypsum fireboard. This not only gives you the best fire protection available, but is also a bitch to cut through. These will generally take a time-consuming targeted attack by a professional crew. An excellent example of this would be the BF series by AMSEC. AMSEC also offers an upgrade for the interior to have a 4ga liner instead of 11ga (the vast majority of gun safes use 11-18 ga steel outers with no metal liner, just as an example of how much beefier this is).

4) TL rated. These are the start of real safes, when using the word "Safe" in it's actual industrial lexicon. They are incredibly expensive and super heavy.....a 30 gun AMSEC TL15 rated safe weighs something like 3500lbs. You'll obviously need a professional crew to get into it.


Of course, none of this matters if you don't bolt down the safe to begin with. If it's sitting atop plywood or blocks for ventilation or whatever, they can literally just put it on an appliance dolly and walk off with it. Or, if they have time on scene, they can push it over which makes it 10x easier to pry the door.

Here's a really good video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHAyRO566sU

[drummer]

If my budget was Liberty range and fire protection wasn't much of a concern for me, I would look at the Sturdy Safes. Their standard ones are 3/16" walls and 5/16" doors that can be upgraded for a bit extra. Way better than most other RSCs.

Their fire liner, however, is somewhat bogus in my opinion. It may work great, there's just no tests proving either way. And none of the big boys use it. We call that a clue at my job.

As has been mentioned, try installing the safe in the corner of a room to hide two of the walls. Building an inexpensive storage cabinet around the safe can also provide additional security while giving you a place for miscellaneous shooting gear.

[TGS]

If my budget was Liberty range and fire protection wasn't much of a concern for me, I would look at the Sturdy Safes. Their standard ones are 3/16" walls and 5/16" doors that can be upgraded for a bit extra. Way better than most other RSCs.

Their fire liner, however, is somewhat bogus in my opinion. It may work great, there's just no tests proving either way. And none of the big boys use it. We call that a clue at my job.

As has been mentioned, try installing the safe in the corner of a room to hide two of the walls. Building an inexpensive storage cabinet around the safe can also provide additional security while giving you a place for miscellaneous shooting gear.

Sturdy's are pretty gnarly for the price. Unfortunately they don't have a dealer in my area, so it's a no-go as far as having in-home delivery/installation.

[underhook]

Sturdy's are pretty gnarly for the price. Unfortunately they don't have a dealer in my area, so it's a no-go as far as having in-home delivery/installation.

I had mine delivered to my garage then got a local lock smith to bolt it down. Was simple. Nothing specialized.

How good are Sturdy's relative to the others? Winchester etc?

I have a Secureit unit from my apartment living days. It's easy to move around etc. The interior storage is novel and I bought a retrofit kit from them for my Sturdy.

[hiro]

I'm in a similar boat to the OP. If things go to plan I will need to store 2 rifles, a shotgun, 3 pistols and ammo. I don't need/want a large safe.

I live in a low crime area and need to keep things from small hands and theft with pry bars/hammers/dremels. I'm unconvinced of the merits of fire protection in all but the most expensive of safes as without layers of insulation, the safe will simply conduct heat to it's contents. In the event of a fire, I understand that my insurance will cover the cost and while I am attached to my guns, there is nothing of any collector or sentimental value that outweighs the $ cost to replace. I live in a rental, 1000 square feet on the second floor. I have no garage or concrete floors and even if I could afford one, a heavy safe is not an option. This will change but not in the near future.

Having read the thread and it's links I am struggling to see any real practical difference between the sub $500 cabinets and "safes" between $500 and $3000. Given how easy it is to cut into the majority in this price bracket.

I like the idea of the SecureIt Ultra Light but what does it do that the Paragon 7501 doesn't for $300 less?

What am I missing here?

[underhook]

I like the idea of the SecureIt Ultra Light but what does it do that the Paragon 7501 doesn't for $300 less?

I was just part of a group by on Securit products (I just got the internal retrofit kit). The discounts were amazing. I think Securit has jacked it's prices up and I'd never pay full retail for their stuff now.