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Thread: Gun Safes 2018

  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Rocky Mountains
    My wife and I purchased a Liberty Centurion a couple of years ago. Instead of buying new though we looked on local for sale pages in our area and ended up buying a $650 safe used for just over $300.

    Edited for typo
    Last edited by Cypher; 06-08-2018 at 06:28 PM.

  2. #12
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    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    America
    Don’t forget moving them. I bought my liberty safe from a locksmith because he would deliver it were I wanted it. The last time I moved the moving company said no problem. They lied. If I was buying a safe again I would look for a used TL 15 or TL30. But they are super heavy
    Last edited by Poconnor; 06-08-2018 at 06:51 PM.

  3. #13
    I'm not going to bash Liberty Safes, but do some research on what the walls are actually made of. They have great marketing and the best distribution network in the country. Sort of like the Springfield Armory of gun safes.

    With steel prices continuing to rise over the last several years, manufacturers are either raising prices to keep up or using less steel. Steel is the only thing making your safe secure. You want as much as you can afford. A common thing Liberty does is to advertise a certain gage thickness which is really a combination of two or three lesser gages. Know what you're buying.

    IMO, the higher end AMSEC are the market leaders. AMSEC has a very poor dealer network. They make some of the best gun safes. I purchases a B series a couple years ago with the 4 gage internal upgrade. I've been happy with it. It took some research on my part to order it then have a local locksmith install.

    If you have a local Fort Knox dealer, you can get .25" upgraded walls for a similar price to the B series Amsecs. Make sure you pay for the additional steel liner (11 ga, to recall) as they don't come standard.

    If you're worried about fire protection, Amsec is the only game in town. It was a lesser concern for me but didn't hurt. Be aware, local safe dealers will probably talk down Amsecs, see above comment on terrible dealer network.

  4. #14
    I don’t know that there’s been anything new in the safe business for a while, except for the SecureIt stuff mentioned above.

    You might want to review the older threads. There’s a couple videos floating around demonstrating how little theft protection they actually provide. The SecureIt marketing videos indicate that typical gun safes manufacturers overstate their fire protection too.

    At this point I’m strongly considering the SecureIt system, but I’d save for a AMSEC BF (or better) or equivalent if I wanted a traditional safe.
    David S.

  5. #15
    SecureIt also is making "real" safes under the True product line. It is definitely pricey though, I believe over $3K.

  6. #16
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Dunedin, FL, USA
    UL ratings are a big deal. Most "gun safes" are not categorized by UL as safes; they are rated as "Residential Storage Containers" or RSC. They provide access control, but little in the way of theft protection. It is not hard to cut them open.

    The basic safe UL ratings are TL-15 and TL-30. The first means the safe is rated to stop a skilled attacker using tools for fifteen minutes; the latter is rated against a skilled attacker for thirty minutes. There is also a TRTL rating, which means the safe is proof against skilled attackers with torches and tools. A TRTL 15X6 rating means that all six sides of the safe are resistant against a torch and tool attack for fifteen minutes. Note how short these time periods are.

    I firmly believe that the least protection required is afforded by a TL-15 safe as most burglars are not going to have the skills, tools, and time to defeat it. Of course, a dedicated person will, but a safe is risk reduction, not risk elimination. I highly recommend buying used from places like a closed K-Mart, Sears, or other business like a jeweler. Safes do not go bad although the locks need maintenance, and there is little difference between one made in 1980 and in 2018 other than cosmetics. I picked up a Mosler TL-15 safe for $500 from a K-Mart that was being closed. I had to have a wrecker deliver the safe and place it in my garage as it weighs 2500 pounds empty. My total cost was less than $800 for a much better safe than any RSC.
    Last edited by farscott; 06-09-2018 at 06:24 AM.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    CT (behind Enemy lines)
    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    UL ratings are a big deal. Most "gun safes" are not categorized by UL as safes; they are rated as "Residential Storage Containers" or RSC. They provide access control, but little in the way of theft protection. It is not hard to cut them open.

    The basic safe UL ratings are TL-15 and TL-30. The first means the safe is rated to stop a skilled attacker using tools for fifteen minutes; the latter is rated against a skilled attacker for thirty minutes. There is also a TRTL rating, which means the safe is proof against skilled attackers with torches and tools. A TRTL 15X6 rating means that all six sides of the safe are resistant against a torch and tool attack for fifteen minutes. Note how short these time periods are.

    I firmly believe that the least protection required is afforded by a TL-15 safe as most burglars are not going to have the skills, tools, and time to defeat it. Of course, a dedicated person will, but a safe is risk reduction, not risk elimination.
    Excellent points.

    One needs to weigh the cost vs. risk factors. Are you anticipating a professional crew of safe crackers camping out in your home while you are away for the weekend? Is your greatest risk a smash and grab? Do you have a home alarm system? Do you live in a residential area where abnormal activity at your home might be noticed? Are you looking for furniture or protection?

    Where and how you choose to keep your safe also can factor into its vulnerability. Is it anchored in place? Tipping it over may be the first part of an attack. Do you have it anchored in a corner such that an attacker can't utilize a long pry bar on the door due to the proximity of the adjacent wall.

  8. #18
    Member TGS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Back in northern Virginia
    The better quality fire protection of AMSECs lines with the DryLight concrete fill vs fire board is also an advantage to theft protection.

    You can have the most massive lugs locking on a foot thick steel plate door, and it's all for naught if the intruder can use a Dremel to cut off the side of your safe in minutes because it's 11ga steel with fireboard.

    Concrete instead of fireboard? Not so easy.

    AMSEC also makes lower end safes. Make sure you're looking at the specs for the safe you're buying, not just the brand.
    Last edited by TGS; 06-09-2018 at 08:55 AM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  9. #19
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    TEXAS !
    Quote Originally Posted by drummer View Post
    I'm not going to bash Liberty Safes, but do some research on what the walls are actually made of. They have great marketing and the best distribution network in the country. Sort of like the Springfield Armory of gun safes.

    With steel prices continuing to rise over the last several years, manufacturers are either raising prices to keep up or using less steel. Steel is the only thing making your safe secure. You want as much as you can afford. A common thing Liberty does is to advertise a certain gage thickness which is really a combination of two or three lesser gages. Know what you're buying.

    IMO, the higher end AMSEC are the market leaders. AMSEC has a very poor dealer network. They make some of the best gun safes. I purchases a B series a couple years ago with the 4 gage internal upgrade. I've been happy with it. It took some research on my part to order it then have a local locksmith install.

    If you have a local Fort Knox dealer, you can get .25" upgraded walls for a similar price to the B series Amsecs. Make sure you pay for the additional steel liner (11 ga, to recall) as they don't come standard.

    If you're worried about fire protection, Amsec is the only game in town. It was a lesser concern for me but didn't hurt. Be aware, local safe dealers will probably talk down Amsecs, see above comment on terrible dealer network.
    AMSEC makes great safes as does Ft Knox they are a whole other level in terms of security vs liberty and browning safes but they are also at a whole other price point.

    Basically;

    AMSEC / Ft Knox > Liberty /Browning > Costco / Winchester / Made in China > security cabinets.

  10. #20
    Maybe it should be asked then, who are good "safe door" sellers, for those who would want to build in/build up their own "safe" room/vault?

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