Draw process with smaller guns discussion

[JCS]

Particularly when using holsters that have low ride height. This picture is not mine, it is @Jay Cunningham picture from another thread but it properly shows what I would like to discuss.

That is, how to best acquire a full firing grip when using holsters that ride low to the belt line or even at the belt line. What I have done in the past with full size guns is more of a scoop draw and use my fingers to kind of scoop the gun out of the holster. But since I’ve been transitioning to a g43 this doesn’t work well. In another thread I read about driving the thumb, which I usually don’t do. I’ve been trying this and it feels awkward (probably because of thousands of reps of not doing so).

So I’m curious, what are you guys doing to best mix speed and consistency while acquiring the grip? I’ve looked around for some videos on driving the thumb but have not had any luck. I found a video of @Prdator demoing his errand but it seems he uses more of the scoop draw with it . I just can’t seem to do this without really fishing around for the gun.

Thoughts?

[blues]

Because of similar issues with the G26, I transitioned to carrying the G19 on a regular basis absent a geographic related or clothing based reason to do otherwise.

To your question, I found that for me, the "scoop" method generally worked better with the smaller firearm vs. driving the thumb. Which worked better on any given day might be due to the pants / belt combination or even which holster and how much rotation it displayed on the belt.

I think that the "scoop and adjust grip" on the draw might be the more practical solution from the standpoint of reliability under most sets of circumstances.

Good topic. I fear that the answer will be "it depends" quite often. Body type, clothing and gear will have a lot to do with what works in a given situation.

[Duces Tecum]

In reference to smaller guns (in my case, the G26), I deconstructed my draw starting from a two-handed sight picture and working backwards, one step at a time, to the initial placement of the hand upon the holstered gun.

For me, the necessary full firing grip cannot be initially had with a small gun carried deeply at the waistline. The strong hand must be adjusted, and full firing grip achieved, shortly after the draw is initiated. The earlier I made the required adjustment (and again, this is just my experience) the better the results.

Ultimately I wound up driving the thumb between the gun and my body with the back of my drawing hand facing towards the top of the gun. The extraction starts with a bit of a pinch grip, the hand rotates clockwise as the gun is withdrawn and a full firing grip is achieved before the pistol completely leaves the holster.

Executive Summary: (1) Drive thumb, (2) pinch grip, (3) begin withdrawal, (4) rotate strong hand, (5) achieve full firing grip, and (6) muzzle exits holster.

My experience is a little different from Blues (above), illustrating that drawing small guns well concealed is probably something every man must work out for himself.

[GJM]

My experience is that it takes .10-.25 longer with the small gun. When you go for same speed as a larger pistol, you are taking chances that increase the probability of a bad grip.

Some variation of this time delta also applies to wearing your full size pistol lower.

[Clusterfrack]

One thing to add: with my G43, I have my holster set up to rotate the grip up away from my belt a bit. That seems to help both conceal and get a better grip on the draw.

[Larry T]

Every setup I have rides high enough to get a full firing grip with flagged thumb. All my AIWB holsters are G17 length. Maybe a very low carry conceals better, but it's not worth it to me to have to have a different draw for each carry pistol. My smallest carry is a G26 with a G26 mag and OEM +2 (frontstrap longer than 10-round mag but backstrap is the same).

[GJM]

Different folks have different concealment considerations.

[blues]

Different folks have different concealment considerations.

Ain't it the truth.

[JCS]

In reference to smaller guns (in my case, the G26), I deconstructed my draw starting from a two-handed sight picture and working backwards, one step at a time, to the initial placement of the hand upon the holstered gun.

For me, the necessary full firing grip cannot be initially had with a small gun carried deeply at the waistline. The strong hand must be adjusted, and full firing grip achieved, shortly after the draw is initiated. The earlier I made the required adjustment (and again, this is just my experience) the better the results.

Ultimately I wound up driving the thumb between the gun and my body with the back of my drawing hand facing towards the top of the gun. The extraction starts with a bit of a pinch grip, the hand rotates clockwise as the gun is withdrawn and a full firing grip is achieved before the pistol completely leaves the holster.

Executive Summary: (1) Drive thumb, (2) pinch grip, (3) begin withdrawal, (4) rotate strong hand, (5) achieve full firing grip, and (6) muzzle exits holster.

My experience is a little different from Blues (above), illustrating that drawing small guns well concealed is probably something every man must work out for himself.

Thank you for taking the time to write out that detailed response. One thing that has been another stumbling block for me is that it seems I need to change the angle that my strong hand comes down on the gun. I can no longer come down straight on top of the gun. Coming down at more like 45 degrees and getting high on the backstrap seems to work better. Again, I need to find that balance of speed and consistency. I don’t want to have wasted movement.

My experience is that it takes .10-.25 longer with the small gun. When you go for same speed as a larger pistol, you are taking chances that increase the probability of a bad grip.

Some variation of this time delta also applies to wearing your full size pistol lower.

Great points. I shouldn’t expect to see the same speed draws. I just need to close the gap because I’m probably closer to .5 on avg. I’m going to test it in live fire at the range tomorrow.

One thing to add: with my G43, I have my holster set up to rotate the grip up away from my belt a bit. That seems to help both conceal and get a better grip on the draw.

What holster do you use? I have a couple but neither rotate the grip at all.

[JCS]

Every setup I have rides high enough to get a full firing grip with flagged thumb. All my AIWB holsters are G17 length. Maybe a very low carry conceals better, but it's not worth it to me to have to have a different draw for each carry pistol. My smallest carry is a G26 with a G26 mag and OEM +2 (frontstrap longer than 10-round mag but backstrap is the same).

In an ideal world I would really like to do that. Unfortunately, I cannot carry a full size gun right now. I realize my draw is going to be slower with this set up but I’m willing to put in the reps to make tweaks to my drawstroke.