Rob, I think you mis-understand Stoeger and how he has changed and even matured over the years.
He isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, to be sure, but I honestly believe that he wants the best for USPSA and IPSC.
I don’t at all see him as the type that just wants to see the world burn.
What you are claiming is an internet-perpetuated caricature.
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?
Oh dude, I think you might have my opinion of the matter wrong.Originally Posted by GuanoLoco
I have zero, -zero-, doubt that Ben Stoeger cares genuinely and deeply about USPSA and IPSC from the perspective of what the sport represents and wanting to perpetuate its future, including maintaining the organization and growing and making it stronger. Absolutely, zero doubt.
Stoeger is still a sarcastic, shit stirring, occasionally smarmy, d-bag, asshole - I know that - because what Stoeger is to Action Pistol - is what I am to my little sub-field of academia. And I'm a sarcastic, shit stirring, occasionally smarmy, d-bag, asshole - who steps on toes from time to time to get shit done and make progress while wanting to perpetuate the organization by growing it and making it stronger. I respect Ben for doing what he thinks is right and trying to do it well. I respect his cavalier attitude and approach, it's working. You know it works when people hold grudges and are scared of you. He's a skilled man with a gun and his mouth - which is the best of all the "skilled mouth + XYZ" combos. But all respect where it is due, Ben is still an asshole, I'm cool with that and I think he is too.
People of action are usually assholes, well-intentioned and well meaning assholes, but assholes none-the-less. Foley appears to be a man of action and an asshole, but unfortunately, it isn't clear he is well meaning. And he lost his cool, acted like a petty tyrant, and issued a faux apology for it. That's a lack of professionalism that cannot be tolerated, it's a sign of ego that means the organization will suffer because of it. Put Ben Stoeger on the BOD of USPSA and I bet Ben will be the first to crack a self-deprecating joke at his own expense, to foster camaraderie and grow the org, he may be an asshole, but it's clear he can set his ego aside when it's necessary, the same cannot be said, demonstrably, about Foley.
Last edited by RevolverRob; 06-05-2018 at 08:30 PM.
Fair enough.
I am struggling to see Ben thriving in an area director role, but who knows.
Last edited by GuanoLoco; 06-05-2018 at 09:00 PM.
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?
Heh...if you liked this little drama you will LOVE shooting IDPAOn Bookface and here? Yes. Other places, we know you are just being your general self...
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So, I followed with great interest as I watched this break on Stoeger’s IG and then over on Doodie (where I am not a member just an observer).
I don’t have much of a horse in this fight. Having shot 0 USPSA matches in the last decade. But I’m in process of gearing back up and prepping to start club level matches this fall, for the first time in about 10-years.
None-the-less, what I saw over the weekend was insane. I’ve served as a board member and officer for multiple professional societies now. While planning a science conference isn’t quite like planning a shooting match, there is a lot of politics and management involved in both. In all cases, it is your responsibility as the representative of your Org to maintain your decorum at all times. You can -never- get mad in public, ever. You must, absolutely remain professional at all times. If you have an issue with someone - you solve it behind closed doors, in private, between as few parties as possible. Professionalism dictates apologizing, even when you are right. It means placing the Org ahead of your ego, always, without fail, everytime.
Mike Foley failed the professionalism test. He failed it first on social media, again on Doodie, and for a third time in a poorly worded and disingenious apology. That’s three strikes and as an outsider looking in - I’d say folks need to demand him out.
You can do all of the good in the world - and still fuck up beyond all repair. If Foley wants to maintain status within USPSA - I suggest he make a heartfelt public apology, and not run for re-election when his term is up. If he wants to look like a pedantic child - he can continue acting like he is.
As for Stoeger -
Stoeger is a shit stirring smarmy d-bag that lots of folks don’t like - but he’s one man - beating many men with experience and skill right now. Like a clever prosecutor getting a defendant to incriminate themselves on the stand - Stoeger is merely walking from USPSA strawpile to strawpile setting them on fire. And showing the world what happens. It strikes me that the “old boys” who talk garbage while squadded up haven’t figured out how to “solve” guys like Stoeger or Berry yet. Because they don’t realize the solution is to make them board members and make them professional reps of the Org - eliminating their ability to talk shit about “the man” because they are “the man”.
——-
Anyways what this all taught me is - USPSA might as well stand for “United States Practical Shooting Amateurs” for the way they have acted in this scenario. Makes me seriously reconsider IDPA. Or starting my own shooting club (with blackjack and hookers).
I think USPSA is still great, and I suspect the membership at large will not stand for the magnitude of Foley's threat to either of the Bens the way he did for the magnitude of the supposed slight he incurred at the hands of facebook or instagram or whatever.
Stoeger is a strange flavor to be sure, but he's got a lot of love for the sport. I think he's an individual with the ability to break down into it's smallest parts the necessary skill to develop mastery and I think he understands fairly well the necessary steps to improve the sport. Just listening to his podcasts doesn't give me the notion that he is here solely for the giggles, but damn does he annoy the old fat white dudes who hate that he classified GM young, his first time around and wins shit like crazy.
Lemme know if you need a list of active USPSA clubs in the northern IL area btw (or when you start up the blackjack/hookers shooting league).
All well and great until he kicks your ass out of the organization.
Oprah style - “you get the ban hammer and you get the ban hammer and you get the ban hammer!”
Anyone in that capacity should remember customer service and personal relations - especially since USPSA members are paying for a membership, a service.
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.”
Last edited by guymontag; 06-05-2018 at 08:50 PM.
When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk. -Tuco
Today is victory over yourself of yesterday... -Miyamoto Musashi
As I understand it, he can ban someone until the next board meeting at which time the board would vote whether to sustain the ban. Foley claimed the board would back him since th BOD supposedly has long been tired of Stiggers antics (I’m sure they are tired of him but don’t know that they would have backed Foley).
And by antics I mean wearing flip flops to the award ceremony and using the trophy to crush a beer can. Real wild and wacky stuff. That was seven or eight years ago and the fat old guys are still talking about it. (He did troll Rudy Project really hard and stir up a bunch of other shit too, to be fair)
Last edited by BigD; 06-05-2018 at 09:21 PM.
Suspend, not ban.
Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?
Sounds like he could use some Ambien...
(too soon?)
So far outside- I don’t know what the doodie project is but here is a quick take.
I enjoy listening to Stoeger and have bought his Reloaded books. I think he seems to care about the sport and making people better. From what I read he is one of the best shooters out there.
I’ve never heard of the other two guys but the President seems to be way out of line. I don’t believe he has represented the organization well at all.
I think I need another year of training to shoot a USPSA match but this doesn’t diminish my enthusiasm.
This country needs an enema- Blues approved sig line
No you don't.
