Vortex Razor 1-6 Gen II-E vs Nightforce NX8 vs Steiner M6xi

[Wayne Dobbs]

I agree. In my AOR and in my mission set (SWAT/patrol) the ability to deploy a rifle with magnified optic makes sense. These include an active shooter in a large open venue, an active shooter on an elevated structure, and as a precision rifle analog when doing over watch. The ability to look into windows ans PID targets is also a huge plus.

I still would probably deploy an RDS equipped sight for 90% of my patrol use. The idea would be to have two rifles in my vehicle. This was also motivated by my primary rifle being rendered inoperable during training the other day(case failure).

Why not do a quality magnifier on a flip mount?

[Wayne Dobbs]

Isn’t 18x24 unrealistically large for hunting or face shooting?

Yes.

[secondstoryguy]

Why not do a quality magnifier on a flip mount?

I’ve considered it as some of my teamates use them. I’ve looked through the higher power Aimpoint magnifiers and I still prefer a LPV for my intended use.

Time will tell and this might be a solution too. I’m worried about how hard it will be to use a LPV with a mask on...a magnifier would solve that.

[TCFD273]

Isn’t 18x24 unrealistically large for hunting or face shooting?

Face shooting-yes

Hunting-yes

Combat-No, dot on face, break the shot.

I was trying to illustrate that a red dot is more appropriate for a patrol rifle, and if you want a LPVO having the best/most forgiving one at 1x is paramount. Maybe I did a poor job explaining that.

I can hit 8” plates with a magnifier at 300...but I think a LPVO is better suited for that niche role. Niche being a work rifle.

You can absolutely use a good LPVO in place of a red dot...with a lot of training and rounds down range. I’m not speaking of myself, but having witnessed/shot along side men who do face shooting (CQB) with LPVO.

This topic has been covered in much greater detail with men with far more experience than myself. I’m mainly parroting them combined with my own experience using them.


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[CS Tactical]

An older but good review on the last generation Vortex Optics Razor Gen II 1-6 to check out.

[vmi-mo]

I have been using LPVO since 09ish IIRC. Most of my time has been spent behind Mk8's, Mk6's, Vortex 1-6 and slowly gaining time behind the ATACR.

I have used these optics on 10"+ rifles and now, all my rifles wear LPVO.

I prefer FFP with some sort of mil based reticle. This comes down to the fact, my holds are represented in the reticle regardless of what magnification I am on.

The realities of the targets engaged in combat are unknown ranges, awkward exposures, blending into backgrounds(even just natural lighting), and not easily eye ball measured shapes.

There are two main ways to hold for ranged engagements. Holds, aka using a mark in a reticle. Or hold overs, meaning if my bullet drops 18" at whatever range, I hold 18" high.

Banging plates at 300 with a SFP gives a false sense of confidence IMHO. It is my personal theory that humans are relatively good at knowing what to hold when they have a target of somewhat known size to hold in reference of. Example, say you're shooting at 12" circle. Say your drop for whatever range is 8", it is fairly easy for you to extrapolate your hold.

This, in my experience quickly falls apart. A fair test of skill is to paint steel targets some neutral earth tones, hide them in a tree line, in realistic spots used for cover, and see how that method of holding treats you.

To me, and most everyone I have ever worked with, having multiple reference points in the reticle spaced out at known increments which hold true regardless of magnification range, carries the day (mil or moa based reticles)

This also makes the degree of precision I can employ easier. Instead of holding in the air above the target 18"ish, i know instead to hold exactly 1.2mils. This means I can engage lower percentage shots (think heads sticking out over a wall) at longer distances and still have a higher degree in confidence of making the hit.

I rarely use the dot illumination in LPVO. I mostly run them around 2 power, which gives me thick enough stadia lines for close stuff, but i can still focus through for precision shots if needed.

The LPVO is just as fast as red dots. It just takes more work to be as fast. In real world conditions, if you know what you are doing, and dont tank turret, the LPVO is not slow.

The flip up magnifier is an awkward system that I have seen prone to zero shift(sorta), parallax and other problems. Looking through 4 lenses is just excessive. Other than added magnification for PID, it doesnt give me any real benefits

The one thing you can do with a red dot, that you cant do with an LPVO, is shoot through it with helmet mounted nods. If anyone has done this successfully with a LPVO, please let me know

[GJM]

Other than obvious differences in magnification, what are thoughts on NF 1-8 ATACR vs Kahles 1-6?

[vmi-mo]

Other than obvious differences in magnification, what are thoughts on NF 1-8 ATACR vs Kahles 1-6?

Don't have much time on the Khales.

Intital view point, 34mm tube, proven durability, fairly logical reticle, mil based for the atacr.

[LittleLebowski]

Guys, I would listen to @vmi-mo.

[jellydonut]

Banging plates at 300 with a SFP gives a false sense of confidence IMHO.

Realistically, would anyone use anything less than full power on a 1-6 at 300 yards?

With a small range such as 1-6 the scope is more of an on-off deal than one where you use a lot of powers in between.

Perhaps on the 1-8 FFP makes more sense, I have not tried one, but I don't feel SFP is an issue on 1-6 optics at all.