FBI agent ND while dancing

[Lester Polfus]

Your piece on "The look that doesn't see" was great and I shared that with family and friends. Thx for putting that out there.

@Mas I also found your account of "the look that didn't see" helpful. I've found myself clearing guns by rote, and that needs to change.

I appreciate you manning up and writing that article. If there is any positive outcome, maybe you reminded some of us to to look and ACTUALLY see, and one of us won't wind up shooting our spouse or kid.

[Lester Polfus]

All of them. The car wreck thing was an analogy. I work in a very busy Homicide & Robbery office. I do not investigate car crashes unless it was an intentional act and the victim is in critical condition or worse.



By all means, don't let my experience in an office that investigates 100+ unintended discharges resulting in injury or death each year override your imagination.*

*edit, this figure does include those who've shot or injured themselves accidentally, which is the more usual outcome. However I've worked shot friends, shot family, shot strangers, shot kids, kids finding guns and shooting other kids, kids shooting themselves, and basically every fucking possible outcome of bullets leaving a gun when we'd rather they didn't.

This is one of the reasons why this forum is different from all the other gun forums on the internet. I'm not sure some folks understand that.

[Lester Polfus]

Also, regarding the internal investigation waiting until the criminal proceedings are concluded, there are other issues besides Garrity. When I saw this happen at my old agency, it could take two different tracks.

If the person was actually convicted of a crime, the employment decision was simple. "You were convicted of a crime. You're fired." That was pretty straightforward. In fact, it would have been against the law for us to continue to employ that person as a police officer in the case of many potential crimes.

If they weren't charged (or convicted) then it would have been a policy/fitness for duty investigation.

[HCM]

Not really, while I don’t have a clue about how Garrity protections given for a federal administrative investigation would effect a state criminal case, I don’t think anyone at the bureau is going to step on their dicks to find out either and possibly throw him a lifeline.

Nope. They would have to give him a Kalkines warning and I don’t see that happening.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalkines_warning

[DMF13]

. . . so not sure where the comment about him opening up a fireams school came from.

Perhaps he was thinking of Lance Burton? However, to be fair, Burton's schools is billed as a "martial arts" school.

[Dagga Boy]

Don’t go stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things. Sometimes the stupid people is you. There are times in life when not carrying a gun at all is the smart move...this would be one of them.

[DMF13]

Quite a few concealed carry holsters are not certified as drunken back flip proof I think.

Too many. My biggest gripe with the vast majority of the holsters, is the inability to tighten the tension down to the point the gun has to ripped out out with a Herculean effort. Getting the gun out of the holster is NOT a finesse move. While I'm not going to be doing backflips (intentionally), I do want my gun staying put while running, jumping, fighting, etc, unless I make a concerted effort to pull the darn thing out.

[DMF13]

I be curious to know if the agent's dominant hand was the same one he tried to pick up the gun with. Everyone thinks they can switch sides without any work but swapping hands with your pistol dramatically increases your odds of an ND.

I'd really like to see the data on that. Not being a jerk, I sincerely would like the data that supports it, for use in training others.

[DMF13]

Odd that the FBI is waiting for the criminal investigation to be completed before making a decision.

I don't find that odd at all. They will want to dot all their "i's" and cross all their "t's" before making any decisions. There is no rush, so why act rashly?

[Hambo]

The thread title reminds of @TGS avatar.

No matter what the legal consequences are, the agent has probably screwed his career. Large agencies have ways of making you wish they had fired you.