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Thread: Why Point Shooting?

  1. #1
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    Why Point Shooting?

    There are several types of Point Shooting which is a term used for shooting sans sights.

    It differs from Sight Shooting which employs one or both sights and the use of a two handed grip, and which is the fastest and most accurate competition shooting method.

    However; studies, the literature, and videos of CQB situations, have established that Sight Shooting does not carry over to close quarters life threat situations.

    In most all real defensive life threat Close Quarters shootings, where there is the greatest chance of one being shot and/or killed, Sight Shooting is not used.

    The oft heard mantra that you will fight as you train, sounds good and reassuring, but it is just hope, and not reality. If it was true, the hit rate in those situations would not be the recognized and dismal rate of less than 20%.

    Blame for the failure of the use of Sight Shooting can be placed on our instinctive "Fight or Flight" response, which science says will kick in automatically in defensive life threat situations, and cause physiological changes such as the loss of near vision which is needed for focusing on the sights.

    The dynamics of CQB, and time and environmental constraints such as bad lighting, can prevent the use of Sight Shooting. And strong hand only shooting is used in most all cases. Also, a crush grip will be used in CQB which will result in low left shooting with autoloaders.

    Blame is due to those who fail to recognize and deal with these and other constraints on its use.

    So, if you have a gun for self defense, and you are not a SEAL or a super gun operator training 24/7 or close to it, it makes sense to know about and become proficient in some type of Point Shooting, as that is what you will default to, when someone is trying to kill you at CQ.

    Here are links to Wikipedia articles on Point Shooting with links to sources:

    Point Shooting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting

    Center Axis Relock

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_Axis_Relock
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  2. #2
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    This forum is based on discussing credible information, and you've made some pretty out-there claims without anything credible to directly support it (wikipedia is not a credible source, and I'm not fishing through wikipedia sources to find something you should reference directly in the first place). Do you have anything to back up your claims? Because from what I've seen, OIS hit percentages went up when departments started teaching sighted shooting rather than instinctual point shooting.

    For one, your 20% statistic is not the end all, be all. Have you ever read SOP-9?
    Last edited by TGS; 02-13-2012 at 08:06 PM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
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  3. #3
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    As to sighted fire being ineffective unless you're a SEAL, you may want to check out Tom Given's students and how they've done in lethal force encounters....56-0, I think. Just normal everyday people.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
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  4. #4
    Rabbit of Caerbannog JodyH's Avatar
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    Good aimed shooting can always degenerate into decent point shooting.
    Good point shooting will never upgrade into decent aimed fire.

    The majority of serious shooters here can make aimed hits 2x as fast as your best draw to hit point shooting.
    You aren't going to get much traction on this forum with hyperbole and half truths.
    You're going to have to have quantifiable, repeatable proof on the range and in FoF at a minimum to impress anyone here.
    Less talk and more walk.
    Lot of desert out here.
    Lot of holes in the desert.
    Lot of problems buried in those holes.
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  5. #5
    Site Supporter Failure2Stop's Avatar
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    I do agree conceptually that at extremely close range, one can get decent hits without sights.
    However, if you ever expect to hit anything smaller than a basketball at anything further away than 3 yards, you better learn to use your sights in a rapid and precise manner while under duress.
    Those people that don't use their sights in gunfights are generally those that have not been trained to use their sights in gunfights.
    As accurate as needed, as fast as possible, as many times as it takes.
    -F2S Consulting LLC-
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5shot View Post
    Also, a crush grip will be used in CQB which will result in low left shooting with autoloaders.
    Shitty trigger control, poor fundamentals & lack of training will result in low-left shooting.

    Don't blame the situation for fucked up execution of basic skills.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell, Esq. View Post
    Shitty trigger control, poor fundamentals & lack of training will result in low-left shooting.

    Don't blame the situation for fucked up execution of basic skills.
    Yup.

    Using OIS as stats is almost laughable. 99% of cops only shoot when they are forced to - once a year at qualifications and during the one day of mandatory training.

    If you think that actually *fixes* shooting problems, you are mistaken.

    I would say that point shooting is a great crutch for people to gain confidence in their abilities to shoot when they don't want to practice and actually learn how to shoot properly. "I just point shoot" is a great copout to "I can't hit shit when shots get hard".

    In the last thread I outlined numerous OIS's I have been involved in or a party to. In all of those, accurate aimed fire stopped the threat.
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  8. #8
    Wow.

    Not to be rude, but you probably also think that competition will get you killed, MMA doesn't work on the str33ts(!!!), and that your body cant handle any "fine motor skills like hitting a slide lock" under stress.
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  9. #9
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    Given the amount of money involved in finding a better way, and cashing in on it at shooting competitions, you'd think that if someone was able to make point shooting work so well, they would have stepped up and cleaned house at a competition.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOP View Post
    Wow.

    Not to be rude, but you probably also think that competition will get you killed, MMA doesn't work on the str33ts(!!!), and that your body cant handle any "fine motor skills like hitting a slide lock" under stress.
    Fuck, that a 1990's flashback...
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