Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 26

Thread: 300 Blackout Subsonic Load Recommendation for suppresed - home defense

  1. #1

    300 Blackout Subsonic Load Recommendation for suppresed - home defense

    I'm looking for recommendations on 300blk subsonic loads for home defense. I have a SIG Rattler and a BCM 9".

    My understanding of 300 BLK Subs are on par with pistol rounds but can penetrate armor. Is that correct?

    I'm seeing a small number of loads advertised including Hornady's new Subsonic. Sig has a number of sub loads but with different projectiles.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    Subsonic is for very specific niche uses--home defense does not come to mind.

    .300 BLK subsonic is not necessarily going to penetrate armor--depends on the load and armor; it definitely will NOT penetrate LIII and above.
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  3. #3
    Interesting. I was naively thinking of the advantage in two dimensions

    - Quieter than suppressed supersonic 300blk so better preserving ones hearing in a home defense scenario
    - Improved terminal effect on a target than suppressed 9mm especially if armor is involved.
    Last edited by underhook; 05-24-2018 at 05:17 PM.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by underhook View Post
    Interesting. I was naively thinking of the advantage in two dimensions

    - Quieter than suppressed supersonic 300blk so better preserving ones hearing in a home defense scenario
    - Improved terminal effect on a target than suppressed 9mm especially if armor is involved.
    Both of those are probably true. I went down this same road a while back and have yet to commit to the use of subsonic 300 BLK. It would probably be more effective than subsonic 9mm, but I'm not sure how much more effective. So far I only shoot supersonic ammo in my 300 BLK rifle and it's not my home defense weapon at this time.

    The 300 BLK has an advantage in that it is probably the quietest common center fire rifle round and suppresses nicely. But for supersonic use the 5.56 has the advantage in that it will likely penetrate less layers of common building materials and be somewhat safer to use in a home situation than 300 BLK. For use with a suppressor I would probably choose the 300 BLK over subsonic 9mm in a carbine, but I'm not sure I would choose supersonic 300 BLK over 5.56 even with a suppressor. Suppressed supersonic 300 BLK is somewhat less noisy than suppressed 5.56 but is much more likely to go through all of the walls in your house and maybe the neighbor's depending on where you live. Unless you never miss.

    Also, even with supersonic ammo using a suppressor will probably lessen the damage to your ears quite a bit vs. non-suppressed.

  5. #5
    @Robinson - thank you for you thoughtful post. The added dimension to the 300, 556, 9mm equation for me is muzzle length. You point on penetration of barriers for 300 BLK are well taken.

    The July/August 2018 issue of Recoil magazine has a review of 300 BLK sub loads for home defense with a focus on expansion. There is some interesting innovation in the market.
    Last edited by underhook; 05-26-2018 at 01:18 AM.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palo Alto, CA
    If loved ones are being attacked by violent criminals who have broken into the home, the goal would be to incapacitate the felons as rapidly as possible, with the least amount of potential downrange hazard to innocent individuals. Neither subsonic .300 BLK nor service handgun calibers are optimal choices to induce rapid physiologic incapacitatation in a desperate defensive encounter. Supersonic rifle calibers, as well as appropriate 12 ga shotgun loads would likely be better choices; as noted above, supersonic 5.56 mm has the added potential benefit of generally offering a decreased downrange hazard after first penetrating intermediate barriers.
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  7. #7
    @DocGKR - appreciate the post. Thank you.

  8. #8
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    @DocGKR, etc.:

    I have some questions/comments on this. There probably isn’t a ‘right’ answer as everything is a tradeoff, but it is something I have considered and experimented with a bit.

    There are (expensive) Lehigh 300 Blackout “Maximum Expanion” 300AAC subsonic rounds with huge (1”) expansion, but these could be classified as novelty rounds and are still poking (big) holes vs. creating rifle velocity type incapacitation. I’ve seen some less expensive alternatives lately. Overpenetration may be a concern for some as expansion seems to require a “wet” medium.

    Full-size AR’s (14.5”+ barrels + muzzle device) aren’t exactly wieldy inside a house. Shooting AR’s inside a house, especially shorties seems a surefire route to permanent hearing damage for self/family/pets. The current vogue of short barrel AR’s drives up muzzle blast and drives down velocity - the key incapacitatign component. My question: At what point is bullet velocity compromized to the point where the short (223/556) AR becomes pointless, and you mights as well switch caliber to something like 300AAC?

    Suppressors mitigate hearing damage concern this to a degree, but you now have the issue of increased unwieldiness of the 223 length barrel + loss of velocity and increased gun battering for an ever-shorter barrel. For 300 AAC Blackout, supersonic seems a better choice here, as I can get 2300-2400+ FPS from an 8.5” barrel with a 110 gr quality bullet (e.g. Barnes TAC-TX Black Tip).

    At the extreme other end of the spectrum are items like suppressed AR-9 pistols shooting something like Fed HST 147’s. A 5” barrel, 8” or less can, .355 vs. .223/.308 diameter, predictable expansion in a quality round, hearing safe, relatively wieldy - but still a .7x”-ish “hole poker” without the ability to induce rifle-velocity incapacitation.

    For home defense purposes, not expecting to be overrun by a mass of armored drug cartel soldiers, what are some well-considered choices here?
    Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Doodie Project?

  9. #9
    GuanoLoco you articulated so well the trade-off space I'm looking at. Effect on target. Effect of missing on friendlies. Effect on good people's hearing and ability to effectively fight. Ease of weapon handling in a home.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    SE Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by underhook View Post

    My understanding of 300 BLK Subs are on par with pistol rounds but can penetrate armor. Is that correct?.
    Level IV armor is out there, plentiful, largely because it is relatively inexpensive, and issued to LEOs in massive quantities. Anything issued to LEOs gets lost, stolen, and misplaced, so it ends up in the hands of miscreants. I am never going to assume I can shoot through any armor.

    A shotgun, with an 18”+ barrel, is much kinder to the ears than one might expect, as I learned when I knocked-loose my hearing protection a few times, in fast-paced enclosed-range training.

    I am probably about to buy a DDM4 V7 10.5” 300BLK, with LAW folder, which is why I am reading this thread, but it would be for specific transport/storage reasons, rather than home defense. I would mostly use this weapon outdoors. My first choice for home defense, in my neighborhood of thin-skinned bungalows, remains my Benelli M2, with the full awareness that one of my former arrestees may come-a-callin’ while wearing stolen armor. It is not that I am anti-rifle, but, simply that if caught half-asleep, I would rather lay my hands upon a VERY familiar weapon system, that does not fire while its “dingus” is down. (Semi is achieved, with an AR, with the safety pointed downward, rather than when “properly” aligned with the enemy. This causes a cognitive dissonance that I find vexing, unless fully in the groove.)

    If I do elect to keep an AR prepped for home defense, it will be .223/5.56, such as my BCM Lightweight Middy.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •