Suggestions for replacement carry piece?

[GJM]

My choices, in order of preference, are P07, P99AS, PX4C.

Using a drill like the TPC 24, the P07 cycles best, and size wise feels like a G19. I love the stock P99AS trigger. PX4C is excellent but the short sight radius is a negative for me at longer distance.

[TheNewbie]

My choices, in order of preference, are P07, P99AS, PX4C.

Using a drill like the TPC 24, the P07 cycles best, and size wise feels like a G19. I love the stock P99AS trigger. PX4C is excellent but the short sight radius is a negative for me at longer distance.

How do you like the PX4 full size compared to the compact?

[TheNewbie]

Another big 239 fan here. And yes, pretty sure SIG has discontinued the 239 in favor of the 225A1.

At quantico tactical you can get them for 640 ish new with three mags and nights sights. This is LE pricing but seems like a decent deal.

[Trukinjp13]

I buy lightly used 92 mags for $10.00/ea, and new ones on sale from Beretta I got were less than $20/ea.

Of course, GLOCK mags are cheap new and used, and available in every store.

I was more trying to be sarcastic. Like Glock is cheap. The others are similar. 92/226/229 have mec gar availability which helps. And have been around forever.

In a nutshell, accessories wise most of the da/sa guns we are talking about are close. Worry about which fits YOU best. Controls, trigger, shooting, etc. the mags/sights/holsters are available for each to make them usable.


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[daved20319]

I've owned most of the pistols referenced here. I'll add my impressions, just for your knowledge:

1. CZ P07 - good size factor - somewhat bigger than the G19, but not huge. Meh trigger, but shoots like a house on fire. VERY limited sight options. Expensive, hard to find magazines
2. Px4C - better size factor - G19 sized with 15 rounds. Great out of the box trigger, shoots very "flat." Limited sight options. Expensive, hard to find magazines. If you are familiar with and like the 92 safety location, this will be OK, if you don't like slide mounted controls - could be an issue.
3. P30 - large for capacity. Horrible DA trigger, meh SA trigger. Accurate and reliable. Limited sight options, but better than any of the above. Weird decock placement. Safety positioning is unusual, and hard to "ride" if you're a 1911 shooter
4. 92 Compact - heavy, wide, 13-round capacity. Great trigger. For all intents and purposes, no sight options (what you see is what you get). Slide mounted safety
5. Sig P228 - rarer than hen's teeth, so spendy. Replacement parts becoming an issue. Large and heavy for capacity. Decent trigger, accurate and reliable.
6. Sig P229 - even heavier than the P228 with same capacity.

Of all the above, I'd go with the P07, all things considered.

Excellent response, and exactly the kind of info I've been looking for, thanks.

Question: what is it about DA/SA that is drawing you in?

It's not really any one thing, more a combination of factors that have piled up over the last year, all of which came to a head after I got my Taurus 92 and shot it side by side with the XDs. As we all know, size matters, and for when and how I carry, I don't need a pistol as tiny as the Springfield. Triggers matter, too, not just how they function, but how it makes your finger feel after an extended shooting session. Might seem like a small thing, but that trigger safety on the trigger blade chews up my finger, and most striker fired guns have something similar, DA/SA guns don't. They also typically have better triggers overall, and as a revolver guy in my early days, DA triggers aren't a problem for me. Once I did some research on decockers, really understood how they work, I got over the willies of "dropping the hammer" on a live round and pretty much fell in love with them. In the case of my Taurus, it seems like the best of all worlds, you can carry cocked and locked like a 1911, or decocked and safety off or on, whichever floats your boat. Like I said, lots of factors. Later.

Dave

[Clusterfrack]

One of my P07s has the CGW ProGrade kit in it, and the trigger is excellent. I tuned it to 8# DA and 4# crisp SA.

My other P07 is stock, and started out with a meh trigger. After a lot of dryfire (with an earplug to protect the firing pin roll pin) and some grease, it now has nearly as good a trigger as the ProGrade gun. 8# DA and 3.75# SA.

[GJM]

One of my P07s has the CGW ProGrade kit in it, and the trigger is excellent. I tuned it to 8# DA and 4# crisp SA.

My other P07 is stock, and started out with a meh trigger. After a lot of dryfire (with an earplug to protect the firing pin roll pin) and some grease, it now has nearly as good a trigger as the ProGrade gun. 8# DA and 3.75# SA.

Tell me more about the trigger improving. Since the Pro kit is $365 plus shipping and a long wait to have Cajun install, and I have a few stock carry 07/09 pistols, I am on the fence about sending them to Cajun.

[Clusterfrack]

Tell me more about the trigger improving. Since the Pro kit is $365 plus shipping and a long wait to have Cajun install, and I have a few stock carry 07/09
pistols, I am on the fence about sending them to Cajun.

Good question. Short answer is if you're willing to spend an hour or two working the trigger, you probably don't need to send it to CGW. If you're in the market for a new P-07, buying it directly from them with the kit installed is a good way to go. If you want to carry a gun that you understand mechanically, then installing the kit yourself like I did is a good project.

NOTE: There are two potentially problematic issues with the P-07/09, but both are easily solvable.

1) The guns are not designed to be dryfired. "Unprotected" dryfire smashes the firing pin into the FP retaining roll pin, causing damage to the roll pin. Eventually, this can cause a malfunction where the FP does not move freely. I insert a half a foam earplug between the hammer and firing pin to protect the FP roll pin from peening. I also installed a CGW tempered steel roll pin that resists damage.

2) As with other CZs there are reports of trigger return springs breaking. This appears to be much less of an issue in the P-07/09 than with the CZ-75 line, and my OEM trigger return spring has been fine so far (thousands of cycles). The obvious solution is to replace the trigger return spring with a CGW spring, which I used in my Shadow 2's. These are very durable, and can last for over 50,000 cycles.

Now on to the break-in process:
I cleaned the gun, lubricated the action with Lucas grease and oil. Then I dryfired the gun in DA for a few hundred cycles. Think of this as a workout for your trigger fingers. I used compressed air to blow out the sear area, and re-lubricated with grease.

Next, focusing on rough spots in the single action pull, I worked the trigger repeatedly without dropping the hammer.

The result was dramatic. DA pull dropped from over 13# to 8#, the low end of the published spec for this gun. The SA pull smoothed out as well. Now if you aren't familiar with them, the OEM gun is hard to distinguish from the CGW ProGrade gun. The CGW P-07 has a crisper SA break, and a slightly shorter reset.

Am I glad I spent the time and money to install a ProGrade kit on one gun? Absolutely. The gun is amazing. And it was worth it to learn how the P-07 works and to gain confidence in the design. It's a remarkably simple and well-engineered system. I especially like the ability to tune the weight of the SA pull using the CGW increased weight sear springs. Since I carry it, I chose the heaviest 0.020" spring to increase the SA pull to 4# in the ProGrade gun (stock weight is listed as 3.3 - 5.5lbs).

Happy to answer more questions.

[Dammit. My browser froze the Pistol-Forum window, and I had to reconstruct this post using a screen capture and OCR.]

[Cecil Burch]

One thing I will add about magazine cost differentials between DA/SA guns (these are all based on a quick google search just now) -

P07 - $36.99 (Gun Mag Warehouse)

PX4c - $31.71 (Bud's)

P30 - $35.99 (grabagun)

P229 - $32.95 (Top Gun)

M92 compact $22.31 (Bud's)


Not really any difference in pricing except for the M92 compact or availability

[ralph]

One thing I will add about magazine cost differentials between DA/SA guns (these are all based on a quick google search just now) -

P07 - $36.99 (Gun Mag Warehouse)

PX4c - $31.71 (Bud's)

P30 - $35.99 (grabagun)

P229 - $32.95 (Top Gun)

M92 compact $22.31 (Bud's)


Not really any difference in pricing except for the M92 compact or availability

Yup, that's just how it is..I've had/still have, several HK's. The mags for them were always expensive, so, I'm somewhat used to shelling out $30 or more for mags..That dosen't mean I like it, But that's just how it is.. I'd also recommend Greg Cote for mags, He has good prices, and has sales fairly often. It's worth looking, if you're searching for mags. Right now for example, he has Mec-Gar 14 rnd mags with steel baseplate for a CZ compact for about $20, which is a pretty good price, it does pay to shop around.. The only bitch I have with metal bodied mags is rust..It dosen't seem to matter who made them, If I carry them as a reload usually it's a matter of weeks before they start rusting, and yes, I've tried using various waxes, they help a little, usually they just slow it down. Right now I've got 3 PX4 mags sitting back at Robar as the NP3 on the mag I used as a reload started bubbling, and then rusting within 5-6 months after purchase...I sent robar some Pics, and in this case, they think that the metal prep wasn't done right, They're going to refinish all 3 for nothing, but they're estimating a shipping date of 6/20, I'm hoping they can get it done sooner.. I just wish manfacturers would either make the mag bodies from stainless, or plate them with electroless nickel, or something, putting a nice, shiny blue finish looks good, but is useless as any kind of meaningful protection from rust...