Risk vs. Reward on first shot

[jthhapkido]

What I've found, fwiw, is that working on a precision-oriented draw (e.g., press out with sights aligned at eye level as it moves forward) improves draw speed across the board but, as caleb points out, has a point of diminishing returns for high% targets. The flip side is that practicing only for the high% target with more of an index draw tends to leave shooters with essentially no draw to low% targets. Instead they just throw the gun out in front of them and then begin the aiming process almost as if they drew to a ready position as an intermediate step.

This, IMO.

You can see this all the time at any sort of competition---blazing fast draw, loooooong pause as they align the sights.

I actually think that it is rather like the sight focus/target focus situation: Most of the time, you want to practice a good, solid, sight-focused technique for shooting. Sometimes, though, you can get away with a target focus, and it may even be faster given that situation. But for some situations, a target focus will cause massive fail.

Similarly, a good solid draw that can handle low% targets can be incredibly quick. Sometimes, a fast grab-and-blast will work (and may be even faster)---but if that is all you have, you are going to run into problems in more difficult situations.

[jetfire]

And to be honest, after working on this all week, I'm not really sure I'm willing to sacrifice the ability to get a fast-ish first shot in a low prob target from the holster just to pick up 0.2 on my draw. One of the things I picked up from Steel Challenge last year was that on a couple of stages where everyone else was drawing to the high probability front target, I'd draw to the back plate (because my draw was slower) but drive the gun quicker in transition. Among shooters at my skill level who were drawing to the front plate, our times were about a wash because they had to slow down going into the back plate.

I'm obviously going to keep working on my draw, but I can adjust my stage strategy around it. If I've got a situation where my choice is draw to a high probability target or a low prob target, I'll just draw to the small target and jack my speed up in transition. Plus, if I lose the ability to make fast shots from the holster on an index card, winning a coin is going to be a lot harder.

[Mr_White]

At this point I very much agree on the value of extensive practice drawing and firing at a difficult target.

Practicing that way sets a tone of precision and patience that I think carries over to other aspects of shooting. I subjectively believe that that precision practice has strongly increased my hit ratio drawing to an easier target too.

[ToddG]

I'm obviously going to keep working on my draw, but I can adjust my stage strategy around it. If I've got a situation where my choice is draw to a high probability target or a low prob target, I'll just draw to the small target and jack my speed up in transition. Plus, if I lose the ability to make fast shots from the holster on an index card, winning a coin is going to be a lot harder.

So while it's in a lame gamer context, this is exactly the kind of issue we discuss here all the time. You've got some competing priorities:

• make IPSC GM, which will benefit from having the fastest possible draw to a high% target
• earn a FAST coin, which will benefit from having the fastest possible draw to a low% target

If we agree, at least for the sake of discussion, that those two goals require different techniques for the draw, you need to do a few things.

First, prioritize. Which is the more important goal to you? You're probably going to be shooting IPSC a lot more than you're going to be in front of people who know what a FAST coin even is. It's far more recognizable as a sign of skill. On the other hand, being a FAST coin holder is a much more exclusive group. Furthermore, are there other factors (like, say, self defense) which influence your priority?

Second, compare. We know technique-A is better for IPSC and technique-B is better for the FAST. But the important question here is, which is worse? In other words, will the IPSC technique hamper your FAST more than the FAST technique will hamper your IPSC? Or vice versa? Figure out which technique will have the greatest overall impact on both goals.

Finally, analyze. Take that information and decide which approach is going to give you the best results for your goals.

[rsa-otc]

My experience over the years has been when I hit with the first shot, the follow up shots tend to follow on target in a nice tight group. When the first shot is a bit off the follow up shots tend to scatter around and the group looks like I'm pattering a shotgun. I'll go with making the first shot on a low probability target my priority.

[jetfire]

If we agree, at least for the sake of discussion, that those two goals require different techniques for the draw, you need to do a few things.

First, prioritize. Which is the more important goal to you? You're probably going to be shooting IPSC a lot more than you're going to be in front of people who know what a FAST coin even is. It's far more recognizable as a sign of skill. On the other hand, being a FAST coin holder is a much more exclusive group. Furthermore, are there other factors (like, say, self defense) which influence your priority?

Well, there's the desire to not get mercilessly heckled for dropping two head shots when I take AFHF.

Looking at the numbers, the smart money is to keep using a draw that gets me better/faster hits on low percentage targets because there are fewer variables on the FAST Drill than there are on USPSA classifiers. Because there are so many different USPSA classifiers, there are ones where a fast draw isn't as important as fast transitions or quick reloads, whereas there's only one FAST drill, and the penalty for a dropped headshot basically guarantees that you can't win a coin and drop a head shot. So the balance point would appear to be to keep practicing getting hits on low prob targets from the draw, and for USPSA GM work on driving the gun in transitions, reloads, etc quicker.

[Jay870]

I guess I don't see the genesis of the "Technique A" vs "Technique B" argument? Even with a "precision oriented draw" I think most would agree that there is room for improvement beyond the OPs current times without reverting to a "grip it, rip it and crank off a hoper" technique. To me it is more a matter of where is there time to be gained with the technique in question?

OP mentions a "messed up" grip when pushing speed... what specifically is getting "messed up"? Strong hand missing in the holster, support hand missing coming onto the gun? Have you video'd yourself to see where you are losing time on the draw?

When I could identify a consistent "slow spot" in my technique on video I'd add in a lot of partial reps focusing on the problem. For example I used to lose a lot of time getting my initial grip on the gun in the holster, so I would book-end every dry fire set with sets of partials focused entirely on hitting my grip and snatching the gun quickly.

When it comes to inconsistencies when really pushing for maximum speed, then I would work in partial sets focused on whatever I missed. If I missed getting my support hand index, I'd do 10 or 20 partials focused entirely on hitting that index perfectly, then go back to full speed draws until I hit the next hiccup, then rinse & repeat.

[beltjones]

First, I don't think that .2 is going to help make GM that much. Each classifier is so different that you might be better off working on your turn and draw, your table starts, your step and draw, etc. As a matter of fact, I would say your standing reload is more critical to making GM than your standing draw, now that I think of it.

However, to answer the question, I have a few ideas.

Two things that really helped me were drawing while facing a mirror (dry fire obviously), and Bill drills. Drawing in front of a mirror will show you all the little wasted motions that add to your time. If you can achieve better efficiency of movement your draw will be incrementally faster.

Bill drills helped me relax a lot. I was struggling to get below two seconds at 7-10 yards (strangely between 7 and 10 yards I have identical Bill drill times) until I just started to relax and let things happen. As long as I key on getting my left hand in place on the gun, I can shoot a clean Bill drill at about 1.8 seconds with a 9mm and 1.9 with a .40 (both shooting factory ammo). One of the keys I found was that at 2+ seconds I was struggling to get the draw below 1.2, and at 1.8 seconds I was relaxing and *letting* the draw come in at .9.

[jthhapkido]

And to be honest, after working on this all week, I'm not really sure I'm willing to sacrifice the ability to get a fast-ish first shot in a low prob target from the holster just to pick up 0.2 on my draw. One of the things I picked up from Steel Challenge last year was that on a couple of stages where everyone else was drawing to the high probability front target, I'd draw to the back plate (because my draw was slower) but drive the gun quicker in transition. Among shooters at my skill level who were drawing to the front plate, our times were about a wash because they had to slow down going into the back plate.

This is interesting to me, because my transitions are MUCH better than my draw. Meaning, if I draw to a far-away target, then transition to a close target, to make sure I get my hits it will take much longer than drawing to a close one then transitioning to a far one and getting the hit. I've been working on my ability to get nice consistent fast hits on a low% target on the draw---but I'm MUCH better at a transition to a low% target. As such, for me drawing to a high% target is nice and fast, AND the transition to a low% is nice and fast. If I reverse it, the draw takes extra time, and while the transition to the high% is a little faster---it is only a LITTLE faster. The sum of the two is still slower than drawing to the close and transitioning to the far target.

Perhaps I just need help. However, taking Showdown, for example (Steel Challenge works well for this! Stats are available! I'm a math/science nerd! Statistics are your friend!) the average of the top five shooters from (collectively) at the 2010 and 2011 Steel Challenge Nats (Production/SSP divisions) was 11.44, with the worst at 12.56. My last time (using official stages) was 13.07 for our outdoor match in January in Nebraska. I'm obviously not a threat to any of the top shooters, but since I don't practice Steel Challenge stages, I'm at least not pathetic. (Nats best score for 2010 and 2011 was 9.66, so I've got a LONG way to go...)

To get my time, though, I shot the near target first, went to the back, hit the other back, then got the other near one before the stop plate. If I draw to the back (low%) target, even though my transition to a near one is slightly faster, it doesn't make up for the added time for the first target, because my transition to the low% target (for the other method) just isn't that much slower.

I've got more control of the gun in a transition than I do a draw. So, for me, that means taking easier targets on the draw (when I'm trying for overall speed) and harder targets on the transition.

I'm obviously going to keep working on my draw, but I can adjust my stage strategy around it. If I've got a situation where my choice is draw to a high probability target or a low prob target, I'll just draw to the small target and jack my speed up in transition. Plus, if I lose the ability to make fast shots from the holster on an index card, winning a coin is going to be a lot harder.

We'll see how I do when I take the AFHF next month in Kansas---I might completely suck.

Like I said above---I spend most of my time working a draw to hit whatever I need, which normally means working at hitting low% targets. But for competitions when I have a choice, my current level of draw/transition means that I do the opposite.

And every once in awhile, spending 10 minutes working an absolute solid speed draw on a wide-open target at 3 yards is not only fun, but a useful skill. True, not as useful as taking that 10 minutes to work more low% targets---but lots more fun. Switching it up every once in awhile keeps it interesting.

I'd say I currently spend 95-98% of my draw practice on low% targets, about 1% on plain fast quick draws on wide open targets, and the rest of quick-draw to open targets as I start moving to someplace else to shoot a low% target.

...and I still (in competition) draw to the easy target first. For me, it is still faster.

[jetfire]

For comparison purposes, the stage that initiated this conversation was Roundabout. I had been drawing to the 7 yard plate, and then transitioning to the back left 15 yard plate, then the other 15 yard plate, then the front right plate, and finally the stop plate. After working on it with some guidance from a friend, I started shooting the back left plate, then the two front plates, then the back right plate and then the stop plate. The reasoning was that I could get a faster transition into the big open plate after a 1.5ish draw to the rear plate, and that by shooting the rear plate last before the stop plate I wouldn't have to brake the gun as hard heading into the stop plate.

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how I shot Showdown, but I feel like it was similar. I had real issues with Showdown at Steel Challenge...actually, I just had real issues at Steel Challenge. That match will get inside your head and make a little nest of evil. As mental games go, Steel Challenge is by far the toughest for me. It made Bianchi Cup's mental discipline seem like a walk in the park.