What's the insurance situation? Are you covered under the agency's policy? When I worked on ranges we required anyone teaching in our facility to carry $1,000,000 in liability coverage.Originally Posted by Sean M
Okie John
What's the insurance situation? Are you covered under the agency's policy? When I worked on ranges we required anyone teaching in our facility to carry $1,000,000 in liability coverage.
Okie John
“The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
"Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's
This is a very good point.
Personally, when I did the NC CCW class, I didn't own a pistol. I was in a better financial position than most of your target audience, but getting a friend to loan me one (buying meant a Pistol Purchase Permit or CCW) was a pain in the butt. I would imagine that loaner/rental firearms will make a substantial difference in accessibility for the people you're reaching.
What are your actual costs?
Ammo, gun rental, targets, range fees, misc.
How many do you think would take it?
How much to you want for profit (if you want a profit)?
Start with an economic model first. My opinion, worth crap, is that I would figure on covering costs and making $100 bucks (if I were interested in making some but not exhorbitant profit).
$240 byo ammo or $285 ammo provided. Extra $25 for rental firearm.
A good 20% discount would be $230 ammo provided plus $20 rental firearm.
An even $250 all-inclusive.
Average cost of the required 16-hour course block for an IL CCL is $200.
That doesn't include ammo, gun rental, or actual shooting instruction, beyond extremely basic CCL requirements.
So...anything $200 or less would be a great deal here in Chicago. In more rural areas, I imagine that dropping to $125-150.
For liability reasons, if you offer range rental pistols, you should have the range provide the ammo.
We wish to thank the United Network Command for Law and Enforcement, without whose assistance this program would not have been possible.
Sounds like you're trying to do right by some local folks and are trying to figure out how to manage the effort. Good on you.
Having said that, it seems to me that asking about how to go about that here----a forum with mainly highly motivated and experienced shooters who must have a decent if not good degree of discretionary income----might not yield answers that reflect the budgets and motivators of your target group of prospective students. If that population is as financially compromised as you suggest, they will not devote more than $95 to any such training, if that much. Their larger priorities are probably very basic, such as putting food on the table and keeping a roof over their heads.
Again, good on you for trying to do right by folks. Please do not take my words as discouragement or disrespect by any means.
The time issue is certainly not one to be trivialized. Which is why I broke it up over three days instead of two. I'm not willing to condense a course to less than 16 hours. I can't in good conscience put my signature to anything saying someone has demonstrated any level of proficiency in less time. It's not even the time so much as it is very difficult to cover the bare minimum of what I feel needs to be covered in a course that assumes zero prior experience.
And if we didn't allow Sunday AM for church, we would not have any students. Irrelevant if the students attend church or not............no agency around here will sponsor an event that cuts into church time.
The City/County will cover the insurance, but I carry $10,000,000 for "just in case".
None.
None.
No idea. There are plenty of places that offer such classes, but none that are sponsored by LE, and this one is unique in that it is sponsored by all three of the local LE Agencies.
None.
Anyone using a rental will be required to use ammunition provided. For liability issues you mention.
My bigger reasons for considering providing ammo are:
Bubba Loads- The only thing cheaper than a cop is two cops. The only thing cheaper than two cops is Bubba. Having trained a handful of civilian oriented courses, I've seen these Bubba Loads, and watched people waste an entire weekend unfucking their gun after feeding it some bullshit they built in their basement the night before class without any QA/QC.
Economy- I can buy in bulk, and pass those savings onto the students at cost. but broken down into smaller lots appropriate for the course. Another option I like better is to have the agencies foot the bill for the ammo, and they can worry about recovering their costs, and leave me out of it............but the agencies aren't in much better financial shape than most of the population.
I'm just trying to find the bottom end of what it can be done for, since training shouldn't be something only hobbyists, people with extra disposable income, or the government can afford.
You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.
Points taken. Sounds like you have a good handle on the needs of your area.
Copy. With all that sponsorship, it’s quickly boiling down to ammo, targets, supplementary reading material, fleet gun maintenance, sets of eyes/ears and advertising. You could certainly do it for, say, $99 all in—noting the list of sponsors/agencies making it possible in the promo lit. There has to be some stake for participants, otherwise there’s always going to be some people who won’t value it.
So long as we are on the topic, any hard feelings if random hobbyists or people with extra disposable income mysteriously sign up/show up?
Last edited by Totem Polar; 05-22-2018 at 02:59 PM.
Here in South Eastern Ohio, the basic class to get a CCW is commonly 8 hours for $100. Some places provide 22 pistols for everybody.
Quality of the classes vary widely.
Quality of the pistols also varies widely. One class I saw a Heritage Rough Rider, a Hi Point and a Scandium 44 mag.
Good luck on your endeavor.
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