But..... they are triggered on motion.... unless you turn that off... <headscratch>Originally Posted by SAWBONES
But..... they are triggered on motion.... unless you turn that off... <headscratch>
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." - Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776
Yeah, I had to turn the Motion Detection capability off.
Even at the smallest radius/least sensitive setting, it would go off whenever a car went by on the street outside, sometimes just with the wind blowing.
"Therefore, since the world has still... Much good, but much less good than ill,
And while the sun and moon endure, Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
I'd face it as a wise man would, And train for ill and not for good." -- A.E. Housman
If you are referring to my post, you've completely lost your mind. Stop "war gaming" what I wrote and glorifying it into something it isn't. There is no sneaking, no confrontations, or any other super ninja tactical stuff happening. No need for police, the DA, a grand jury, ect. I simply choose to not own the door but to greet them outside, let them know I'm not interested, and send them in their way. Works very well each time. If for a second my Spidey senses told me I was more than likely dealing with a nefarious character, if never step foot outside.
If you weren't referring to my post then disregard.
I was actually referring to a guy that posted on the Smith & Wesson Forum.
Excellent.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/139677262-post59.html
I don't know that a prosecutor ever said, "Well, you went outside." But it seems an obvious question to me and something that is easily avoidable by not going outside in such a situation. In general principle, to justify the use of lethal force there has to be the unavoidable danger of death or serious physical injury. If you knowingly leave the safety of your house to face someone, you have just removed the unavoidable part.
Self defense is far more clear cut if you stay inside, rather than going outside to confront or investigate a suspicious person who was otherwise not a threat to you or anyone else.
It weakens your assertion that you were in fear of your life when you leave the safety of your locked house to face, confront, or investigate someone.
To quote Tom Givens: "Never go looking for trouble without expecting to find it. In just about every single instance I know of where a permit holder or other lawfully armed citizen was charged after a shooting, he went outside his home or vehicle to confront someone "suspicious" or involved in some petty behavior like vandalism. You will get all the heartache you need in this world without going out of your way to get more."
You are in a better tactical and stronger legal position if you stay in your house and shoot them when they are in the process of breaking into your house. This removes any doubt of their intention. There are laws on the book in both NY and CA that justify the use of deadly physical force against someone in an occupied house. In NY you can use deadly physical force to terminate a burglary or an attempted burglary: http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal....20_35.20.html.
There are indeed a number of cases where people left the safety of their house to investigate or confront someone who was otherwise not a direct threat to their physical safety and suffered legal consequences. Had the people stayed inside of the houses, none of the shootings would have happened. Here are a few I can think of off the top of my head.
First, there was one that the Late Todd G related the incident of a Judge who shot someone who was threatening him and wound up getting charged. When I further asked him about it, he told me that the judge armed himself and went out on the porch to confront the guy. It would have been a different matter if the guy broke into his house.
Second, there was a situation that Massad Ayoob wrote about where someone armed himself and opened the door to "discuss his situation" with someone who believed the homeowner was having an affair with his wife. The larger man assaulted the homeowner and the homeowner wound up shooting him and killing him. The homeowner went on trial.
Third, the famous case of the guy in Louisiana who left his house to confront someone who knocked on one door and then the other and when the homeowner faced the person and ordered him to freeze he refused the man's order to freeze and approached him and the homeowner shot and killed him and it resulted in a nationally famous trial: https://www.upi.com/Archives/1993/05...6184737697600/
If the person had remained inside all of these would have been avoided. Or if the person outside tried to break in, the person who shot them would have been in a much stronger legal situation and might not have even gone to trial. Look at the number of people shoot burglars in their own home who do not go to trial, unless they do something incredibly stupid that puts them outside of the law. Staying inside sacrifices nothing and gives you both a legal and tactical advantage.
Last edited by Ed L; 06-08-2018 at 02:16 AM.
You know what Drew, let's cut the shit. Here's your original post.
Don't tell me not to ninja or wargame this when you're the one talking about "scanning for lurkers" and "getting the drop on the other guy". You're the one that's talking about seeking cover before you CONFRONT them and the only way the fact that you're armed if you're out of bed would help is if you made damn sure that they knew it.
You got caught with your dick in your hand dude admit it and drive on. Have a good day
By stating that if you thought they were nefarious, you would never step outside, you are acknowledging that your protocol isn't the best one to apply to anyone who would be a real threat.
You must have some amazing spidey senses. If your spidey senses tell you they are not nefarious, why the whole elaborate routine of going out the back garage door, locking it behind you and leaving a vehicle in your driveway so I you can position yourself on the driver side of the hood with the engine block between you and them? Wouldn't it be simpler to just speak to them through the door or a nearby window and tell them that you are not interested?
And spidey senses are far from infallible. A lot of criminals go to great lengths to appear innocuous and are deliberately deceptive or ambiguous, so you may not know whether that guy who knocked on your door was an annoying door to door salesman or a criminal looking for a ruse to gain entry. I can find lots of examples of seemingly innocuous seeming people who used it as a ruse to get the homeowner to open the door. I am not trying to say that you would open the door, I am saying that you really can't tell, thus I have a policy of not opening the door for anyone I don't know.
Second, once you have stepped outside, a lot of things can go wrong that you have no control over--such as how the person acts or reacts. They can decide to start closing the distance on you while talking the way panhandlers often do. Are you ready to draw your gun on them at that point? There may be two of them who decide to rush you. By going outside the way you describe you can get yourself into a much worse situation both tactically and legally.
You're nuts. The only thing I've been caught with, is being in a redicilous conversation with some "random nobody" who thinks he's the next SWAT leader. You may not agree or like the wording I chose. To imply that I would somehow brandish a weapon to intimidate someone is as stupid and ignorant a statement as your previous posts.
I also never said anything about "seeking cover" as you stated above. Seriously? So if you want to "cut the shit" as you so elloquently put it, start with yourself.
Scanning for lurkers was a bit tounge in cheek. Let me break that down for you cypher. That means I look to see how many people are coming to my home to talk to me. Is that somehow a bad "tactic". Or maybe it takes like. 5 seconds and is just something totally natural.
You jumped my shit the second you read my post. Im tempted to tell you what to do with your d!ck, but unlike you I don't swing that way and the very thought of that makes me want to puke.
"Drive on tactical bro"
Last edited by Drew78; 06-08-2018 at 04:58 AM.
Reply With Quote