‘Treat as if’ is a lot softer and mushier than the absolute statement. The current phrasing of the first rule doesn’t permit argument, internal nor external. I’m comfortable with it.
‘Treat as if’ is a lot softer and mushier than the absolute statement. The current phrasing of the first rule doesn’t permit argument, internal nor external. I’m comfortable with it.
Ignore Alien Orders
Can a 4 rules advocate explain to me a AD/ND that:
All guns are always loaded.
Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
prevents, but:
Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
doesn't?
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
I'm not saying anyone is likely to take it literally, but that's actually the problem; it's obviously false, so people are actually likely to want to pick it apart rather than listen to it. My point is that there are much better ways to convey the attitude that it's intended to convey.Originally Posted by Robinson
Most people I have met, including my longago self, treat a gun that they believe is unloaded completely differently from a ‘real’ gun. Getting a good latch on rule one let me stop greying out rules two and three when I believed a gun was unloaded.
Ignore Alien Orders
I liked Mike Pannones take on the rules, which I thought were more suitable to armed professionals.
1. Always be absolutely certain of the condition of your weapon.
2. Keep the weapon pointed in a safe direction (relative and possibly fluid).
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you're preparing to fire (safety off here).
4. Be sure of your target, your backstop, foreground, the quality of intervening cover, and the ballistic capability of your weapon and ammo.
I especially appreciated rule 1....having been on patrol with guys at various points in my career who were carrying unloaded weapons since their last qual shoot. Sometimes the gun isn't loaded when it needs to be!
I remember when you used to argue with Todd Green that your trash heap backstop was safe. Now you hate the 4 rules.
I say "treat all guns as if they are loaded". What individual has done more to safe gun handling than Col Cooper?
The 4 rules are simple to remember and easy to expound upon. I like them.
I don't have a problem with the 4 rules. I get the concept behind it. I say it as TREAT all guns like they're loaded all the time but I don't have a problem with Cooper's original saying.
What annoys me is when someone posts it on the Internet and the contrarians come out of the wood work and start asking stupid questions like "Well if I'm cleaning my gun and its disassembled which part do I treat like it's loaded?" Or "If I have the barrel out is it OK to point it at something I don't want to destroy?" So even then, it's not the rules it's the assholes trying to prove they're the smartest guy in the room.
Like everyone else here I'm sure, my carry gun is always loaded and I bear that in mind every time I touch it. When I put it on the night stand at night I point it at the outboard wall instead of the wall behind my bed because that's also the wall behind the neighbor's bed. I WOULD HOPE that carrying a loaded gun over a period of time has ingrained safety conscious THINKING into my mind.
Exactly the problem at hand. Most ordinary folks are gonna go “treat them like they’re loaded all the time? BS” . Because a factually unloaded gun can’t kill you or anyone else as fast as a loaded one.
The Minority Marksman.
"When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
-a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.
I think the hard statement is exactly what causes argument - it’s being told an untrue thing as absolute truth. “The car is always filled with gas” Well, no, it’s not. People know it’s not true.
People have to be in on the metaphor before they appreciate its meaning. Coopers rules came from a gun guy to other gun guys. They made sense in that context. To a true newbie it seems really nonsensical until they “get” it. That said, some people do like to be belligerent about it even after they understand and then that’s just them being obtuse.
This doesn’t distill into as nice of a catchphrase, but for me it is “all guns are always loaded and should be treated as such (meaning the other three rules still apply). Positive identification of status must be made before any manipulation and maintained (including reconfirmation if the gun leaves your control only briefly, eg, you set it down and pick it up minutes later).
Really, thinking about it, the first rule could just be “all three rules still apply to all guns no matter what”. That’s the point. Don’t break the other three rules just because you “know” the gun is unloaded.
In which case it kind of turns into Barney Fife-ism:
“RULE NUMBER ONE: OBEY ALL RULES”.
--Josh
“Formerly we suffered from crimes; now we suffer from laws.” - Tacitus.
Yes. Just like a teenager with their newly acquired learner's permit to drive a car - all the rules can be followed to the T but they still have much to learn about the safe operation of a motor vehicle on pubic roads, which only comes with experience.
I view the four rules as the essential easy-to-digest rule set for the novice that is intended to keep them out of trouble while they work on becoming truly proficient in safe gun handling. Since the average gun owner never becomes proficient, the four rules are all they have to live by.
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