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Thread: Powder charge variation and the Brazil Nut Effect

  1. #11
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    This is a recently discovered phenomenon in the physics of granular media called the Brazil Nut Effect. Counterintuitively, the largest, heaviest particles end up on top. This is why rocks keep sprouting in plowed fields. Of course, powders with a very uniform grain size (e.g. Titegroup) wouldn't have this problem.
    Dude, that is so cool and good to know.
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  2. #12
    That is interesting to know, in a scientific hypothetical way.
    Hypothetical, because I am not going to add powder stratification to my other loading concerns. Bye, bye Prima V.
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  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    I loaded a lot of PrimaV and had taken to shaking up each jug carefully, then manually throwing many priming charges.

    Looks like US availability is probably done, moving to CSB-1M next. If s like the ETR-7 / (I think CSB-1) from Expansion Industries (who went bust) but with a smaller flake. ETR-7 was my fav powder to date, and prelim testing shows CSB-1M is as good or better.
    I almost jumped onto the Prima V bandwagon and after seeing this I'm sure glad I didn't. There was a cult like following on the Enos forum for awhile right after it became available. The price on that first lot was sure right too but I stuck with my e3 for gamer loads. For handguns I could get by with e3 for the gamer stuff and BE-86 for other loads for more serious applications.

  4. #14
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    It’s tempting to submit a paper on this to Journal of Physics: Condensed Matter, just to see the editor’s response. [emoji3]
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  5. #15
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    I am not hating on PrimaV, but I do take exception when availability becomes an issue.

    It’s still way better than Titegroup, or any of the other powders that I have tested.
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    How is the burn rate? Or perceived “softness”? N320 and Prima V feel softer to me than Titegroup.
    With all due respect, I have no idea what you are asking. I only perceive differences due to bullet weight and powder burn rate. I think the whole ‘soft shooting’ thing, based on my own testing - on the timer + perception - and many, many 10’s of thousands of rounds - is hoo-hah.

    At this point I am interested in 124gr bullets and powders that are fast-burning, cheap, clean, available, decent bulk (double charge should be obvious/not allow easy bullet seating), consistent (low velocity spread at > min Power Factor), temperature-insensitive and that meter well, not necessarily in that order.
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  7. #17
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    I agree about the "soft-shooting" hoo-hah--mostly.

    I think there are 3 related factors: burn rate, bullet weight, and charge weight (for a given velocity) that affect the recoil impulse. Some powders just feel better to me, but I'll admit that it's probably pretty subjective.

    And, I agree with your priorities as well. Right now, I'm really happy with Blue Bullets and Prima V or N320.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
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  8. #18
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    If you fix power factor, then burn rate/charge weight is really one item. For a given bullet weight, and any of the ‘fast’ pistol powders, I’m not sure that burn rate differences are even perceptible in recopil.

    I can’t justify N320 on price alone. PrimaV was available at a pretty compelling cost point for a while (13-$14 / 1.1 lb jug), especially with the deal where there was no Hazmat for 10+ jugs.

    ACME has a pretty compelling bulk price for 124’s - $0.06 ea shipped for qty 12,000 (from memory). It is possible to do even better.

    I just finished a 500+ rpund practice session where I was able to shoot GM-level scores on 3 different classifiers with 124gr bullets and a (not to be named) stupid fast powder that I am loading for $0.002 / charge for practice ammo. Regular powders are usually $0.01 / charge, and N320 probably $0.02 / charge. Cheaper ammo = more ammo for practice, and that matters.

    I honestly don’t think recoil impulse was a relevant factor in my performance (or lack thereof).
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuanoLoco View Post
    With all due respect, I have no idea what you are asking. I only perceive differences due to bullet weight and powder burn rate. I think the whole ‘soft shooting’ thing, based on my own testing - on the timer + perception - and many, many 10’s of thousands of rounds - is hoo-hah.

    At this point I am interested in 124gr bullets and powders that are fast-burning, cheap, clean, available, decent bulk (double charge should be obvious/not allow easy bullet seating), consistent (low velocity spread at > min Power Factor), temperature-insensitive and that meter well, not necessarily in that order.
    I just started using alliants new sport pistol. Meters and performs like n320, they also claim it was developed for coated bullets so it doesn't burn as hot as TG. I suggest you give it a try.
    Last edited by cjb1911; 05-13-2018 at 06:47 AM.

  10. #20
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjb1911 View Post
    I just started using alliants new sport pistol. Meters and performs like n320, they also claim it was developed for coated bullets so it doesn't burn as hot as TG. I suggest you give it a try.
    I’ve heard about it - not a bad deal but I’m always looking for GREAT deals, then we buy in bulk and split.
    https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/76148

    The other one on my list to test if I get a chance is Shooter’s World Clean Shot / Lovex
    https://shootersworldsc.com/clean-shot/
    “Clean Shot is a canister form of Explosia bulk propellant D032-02.”
    https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...-5-lb-by-lovex

    If either is as good as the MAXAM CSB-1/CSB-1M I’d be thrilled.

    I have great hopes for these next-gen powders.
    Last edited by GuanoLoco; 05-13-2018 at 06:59 AM.
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