Pistol RDS mortality rate in high round count classes/competition

[cornstalker]

So way back in about 1983-84, there was an article in the National Tactical Officers Assn journal showing how LAPD D-Platoon (SWAT), in preparation for the upcoming Olympic Games to be held in LA, had mounted a Streamlight SL-20 flashlight to their MP5 SMGs using waterhose clamps. An SL20 weighed easily two pounds and was over a foot long. Threw a great beam for the time and you could also tune up slow learners with the mass of the light. As a young SWAT cop at the time, I and many others felt we had been shown the true way forward. I look at that now and die laughing in shame at my ignorance. A quick look at just the low end weapons light systems proves that very definitively. The top grade WMLs are simply mind blowing when I consider my frame of reference over many years.

We're going to feel the same way about the current crop of red dot sights on pistols in five to 10 years. These steps are the baby steps and are only a proof of concept. I don't think that the way forward will bear much resemblance to the final solution. Until we get optics that will go 50K rounds on a slide we won't be there and that's going to be a task due to the g forces the sight endures during slide reciprocation. Also, I'm thinking we need much smaller housings and think about mounting them much lower and perhaps forward on the slide instead of at the back. Time will tell who is right on this, but I bet you we'll be saying one day: "Do you remember all those RMRs and Delta Points we used to use?" while we die laughing.

Great perspective. Thank you for that.

[Gewehr3]

At this point, I'm surprised there hasn't been a pistol design where the slide doesn't reciprocate in a traditional manner to support the red dot.

The Silencerco Maxim 9 system looks to be a step in the right direction.

[Wayne Dobbs]

^^^ This ^^^
I'm not opposed to the idea of a dot sight on a pistol, USPSA Carry Optics guys are outscoring Limited shooters despite the Minor caliber scoring disadvantage.
I am not on board with the current generation of dot sights negatives outweighing their advantages outside of competition.
I think we're still at least two generations (and probably at least one major technological innovation) away from a truly solid MRDS for "shooters".
Sure the current crop of sights will probably work for people who carry a gun (Doc's positive experience with them in LE) but as GJM's experiences show, they aren't ready for the hardcore enthusiast who shoots their gun.

Jody,

I'm also NOT against dot sights on a pistol. I do think they're nowhere close to where they'll be down the line. When that day comes that we have an intuitive, durable and compact solution, I think all of us legacy firearms instructors will sit around and reflect on when we had to teach sight alignment and sight picture to our shooter students. I hope I get to see that day.

[JodyH]

Jody,

I'm also NOT against dot sights on a pistol. I do think they're nowhere close to where they'll be down the line. When that day comes that we have an intuitive, durable and compact solution, I think all of us legacy firearms instructors will sit around and reflect on when we had to teach sight alignment and sight picture to our shooter students. I hope I get to see that day.

A RMR really changed my wife's enjoyment level in 3-gun and USPSA, she doesn't get to shoot much these days and the RMR makes getting hits easy even at longer ranges.
I definitely see the advantages and know they will be fully mature and awesome in the future (near future I hope).
The day we get a MRDS for pistols that's truly the equivalent of a Aimpoint T2 on a rifle will be a good day indeed.

[theJanitor]

Since going to a MRDS was a MUST for me (with compromised retinas), and I don't yet trust the current MRDS, a few things were obvious. Get the RMR, as it's got the best chance of holding up. And get a mounting solution with an adapter plate. Since I'm a 1911 guy, the trijicon solution was the way forward. If I was a glock guy, then it would have been the ATOM, even though it looks like screws turn out to be the failure point on those.

That being said, I did send out a glock slide for direct milling, mostly cause I'm too cheap to buy an ATOM slide, and it's my backup gun

[David S.]

I'm also NOT against dot sights on a pistol. I do think they're nowhere close to where they'll be down the line. When that day comes that we have an intuitive, durable and compact solution. . .

This is where I’m at after taking a 2-day RDS class this last weekend. I like the concept but the borrowed RMR left me willing to hold out for future development.

[David S.]

@AsianJedi, or anyone....

What’s the expert consensus on MOS and similar systems?

The Internetz (yeah, I know) says they are not rugged enough and position the dot too high, compared to expensive direct milling or aftermarket slides. I can see understand both arguments, but wonder how it’s working out in the real world.

A multiple optic system makes a lot of sense considering how early in the development we are with RDS’s.

[MVS]

@AsianJedi, or anyone....

What’s the expert consensus on MOS and similar systems?

The Internetz (yeah, I know) says they are not rugged enough and position the dot too high, compared to expensive direct milling or aftermarket slides. I can see understand both arguments, but wonder how it’s working out in the real world.

A multiple optic system makes a lot of sense considering how early in the development we are with RDS’s.

My experience isn't as wide as some. I have been using and around dots on carry guns for about 8 years now. I carry a milled slide G19 with a RMR. I compete with a 17MOS with a DPP. I have had no problems with the MOS system but there is no doubt it makes the dot sit higher. Between that and the DPP irons on my comp gun would be a joke. Carry gun milled into the slide with RMR makes them much more doable.

[M2CattleCo]

I don't have one yet, but as soon as they're as bom-proof as an Aimpoint on an AR, it's go-time..

[AsianJedi]

RMR version 2 seems to be holding up well on the MOS. Pentagon ERT has been running them on G35 MOSs for almost a year now.