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Thread: Tougher enforcement for lower level gun offenses

  1. #1
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    Tougher enforcement for lower level gun offenses

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/u...n-charges.html

    Jeff wants to hammer the lower level gun offenders. Does this serve a real purpose? It is an empirical question as to reducing crime as compared to an ideological one, it would seem to me.

    Are there more serious issues to use federal resources for? Does it serve the community? When these folks are incarcerated for a long time - does that do any good? We have more folks in prison than most countries.

    For those of you law enforcement, is this a good idea?

  2. #2
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Back in the day, ATF would spend a lot of time in the field tracking down "straw purchasers" of firearms who often moved these guns on to various unsavory groups like 1%er motorcycle clubs and various criminal gangs. I've gone out with them on several cases of that sort, and they assisted my investigations with tracking down guns being transported across the border to gangs like the Rock Machine up in Canada.

    If it ends up simply being a numbers game...it'll do little good. If it's used intelligently as another tool in the toolbox, then it can be very effective in going after valuable targets.
    Last edited by blues; 05-07-2018 at 01:03 PM.
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  3. #3
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/07/u...n-charges.html

    Jeff wants to hammer the lower level gun offenders. Does this serve a real purpose? It is an empirical question as to reducing crime as compared to an ideological one, it would seem to me.

    Are there more serious issues to use federal resources for? Does it serve the community? When these folks are incarcerated for a long time - does that do any good? We have more folks in prison than most countries.

    For those of you law enforcement, is this a good idea?
    Chicago's murder clearance rate last year was 12%.

    12.

    If you want to solve crimes, you need information on criminals. If you want information, you often have to talk to other criminals to get it. If you want them to talk, you often need some sort of leverage to get them talking.

    If DOJ starts actually prosecuting gun charges...charges that have the lowest rates of prosecution in the most violent areas of the country...then it's highly likely they'll start putting some murderers behind bars.

    Federal charges and sentences are a whole different kettle of fish and they make bad guys talk. Bad guys like "Rabbit":

    http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orlea...9476afd67.html

    Does it serve the community to aggressively prosecute felons who have guns? Given that the vast majority of violent crimes are perpetrated by people with a felony record, you betcha.

    When they are incarcerated for a long time, does it do any good? Given that they can't rob, rape, and murder members of the general public while they are locked in a cage, you betcha. "Rehabilitation" isn't really a thing for violent offenders so the best you can do is keep them in a cage before they end up killing enough people to force you to keep them in a cage forever.

    There is ample evidence that when it comes to violent crime we have a severe under-incarceration problem in the United States. That is why places like Chicago, Baltimore, Memphis and others we could name have such terrible crime rates. There are so many violent assholes doing violent asshole things that we can't keep them all in a cage. They are routinely let out to re-offend over and over and over again.

    Frankly if it weren't for the mandatory minimums on drug charges many of these dudes wouldn't ever catch hard time on anything. Ever. Witness the aforementioned "Rabbit".

    The FBI's UCR is not uniform as lots of agencies do not report to it. When you start peeling back the layers of the onion and look at violent crimes in total accounting for the under-reporting going on, you will very quickly realize that the majority of violent crimes in the US are not solved. Meaning the perpetrators of them are not arrested, prosecuted, or incarcerated. Tom posted something that explains this last year:

    Memphis Homicides So Far in 2017

    I just went through a detailed report on the homicides reported in my old stomping grounds in Memphis. From January 1, 2017, until August 9, 2017, there were a total of 122 homicides in the city. None of these involved police action, but 2 were ruled justifiable homicides by private citizens.

    In these cases, the weapons used were guns in 98 cases; knives in 9 cases; and other or unknown in 12 cases.

    Arrests were only made in 42 of the cases, a clearance rate of 34%. Arrests were most common when the motive listed was “domestic” or “argument”. When the motive was “robbery” or “unknown” there was rarely an arrest made. This reflects the difficulty in solving “stranger” murders, in which the victim and the offender are not known to each other. These are most often street robberies and car-jacking incidents.

    The break-down of motives listed was as follows:
    Unknown- 91 cases (usually a robbery or attempted robbery)
    Argument- 11 cases
    Robbery- 10 cases (in these the motive was evident)
    Domestic- 8 cases
    Gang related- 1 case.

    Thus, “Robbery” and “Unknown” accounted for 83% of the homicides. This completely debunks the narrative that most murders are domestics or gang related. They are certainly not. Note that only 1 case was determined to be “gang related”. This shows that by far the greatest threat is from a robbery or unknown (usually turns out to be a robbery or attempted robbery in some form). These are crimes that are committed in public places, such as convenience stores, shopping centers, and office parking lots. Be vigilant, and carry your gear.
    ...and that's just homicides. The picture doesn't get any prettier when you start to consider the other types of violent crime that don't rise to the level of killing. "Stranger" crimes...which are the sort of crimes most people on PF are really worried about...are solved only a fraction of the time.

    And then the perp has to be tried and serve time. This is often a laughable amount of time because 90% of criminal cases are adjudicated by plea deals. So whatever dude actually did in a particular incident, it's a fair bet he's only ever going to see prosecution on a fraction of the charges and that only with a fraction of the maximum sentence served.

    So working simple possession cases like felon in possession can have a significant impact. It had a significant impact in Richmond when it was applied, much to the chagrin of that fucktard Eric Holder.
    3/15/2016

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by TCinVA View Post
    So working simple possession cases like felon in possession can have a significant impact. It had a significant impact in Richmond when it was applied, much to the chagrin of that fucktard Eric Holder.
    I remember hearing about that happening in Richmond. Why was the program stopped? Was it done in the name of political expediency because too many felons from certain neighborhoods were being rolled up and sent to federal prison?

  5. #5
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scw2 View Post
    I remember hearing about that happening in Richmond. Why was the program stopped? Was it done in the name of political expediency because too many felons from certain neighborhoods were being rolled up and sent to federal prison?
    It was called Project Exile.

    The NRA supported it. When Wayne LaPierre goes on TV and talks about enforcing existing gun laws, he's referring to the lack of enforcement on current gun laws that lets violent shitheads keep doing violent shithead things.

    Eric Holder opposed Project Exile while he was the USA for DC.

    You remember Eric Holder, right? Former attorney general?

    There's a big clue as to why it was stopped.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/wa...ral-gun-crimes
    Last edited by TCinVA; 05-07-2018 at 01:58 PM.
    3/15/2016

  6. #6
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    A lot of dope rips, retaliation robberies, and other known thug on thug crimes end up not being prosecuted because the victim is either a lying shitbag, fails to cooperate, or both and the prosecution has to drop the case. In those instances, gun and dope charges are often the only things left. Dope charges aren't what they used to be.

    So...yeah, it could make a difference.

    I sometimes have robbers using pellet guns, and will admit to doing so because they know getting another handgun charge will result in more real time than the robbery. Note in my state a pellet gun that fires a metal projectile will still qualify you for armed robbery. So, at least a certain segment of the criminal population pays attention to that sort of thing.
    Last edited by BehindBlueI's; 05-07-2018 at 02:01 PM.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  7. #7
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    A lot of dope rips, retaliation robberies, and other known thug on thug crimes end up not being prosecuted because the victim is either a lying shitbag, fails to cooperate, or both and the prosecution has to drop the case. In those instances, gun and dope charges are often the only things left. Dope charges aren't what they used to be.

    So...yeah, it could make a difference.

    I sometimes have robbers using pellet guns, and will admit to doing so because they know getting another handgun charge will result in more real time than the robbery. Note in my state a pellet gun that fires a metal projectile will still qualify you for armed robbery. So, at least a certain segment of the criminal population pays attention to that sort of thing.
    When Exile was running and bad guys were hearing through the street that homeboy the next block over really was catching federal time on gun charges, the bad guys talked an awful lot about not wanting to catch gun charges.
    3/15/2016

  8. #8
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    I wish they would. We had a shooting back in December during a dope deal gone wrong that was an easy fed case. They wouldn’t take it because neither turd had a record. Was within 1000’ of parks/school. State law really doesn’t address what happened (did I mention OH Law is stupid?) so neither turd got charged with ANYTHING.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  9. #9
    Dot Driver Kyle Reese's Avatar
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    I agree with this effort 100%, for the reasons so artfully articulated above.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    This will last until some stats are leaked showing what some consider a bad trend, then it will be scrapped once again like Exile.

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