Strange Ammo Malfunction

[Doc_Glock]

Interesting. This ammo is the same which was used in the APX Kaboom thread:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....my-Beretta-APX!

General consensus is that it is really hot and best for sub gun use.

I ran it past the owner of SGAmmo.com and he said he sold 1875 cases of it and never had a problem reported to him before me. Once again I am finding apparently novel problems with guns and/or ammo.

I don't actually believe that, I just think most people don't pay attention or don't care.

I am retiring the PPU NATO spec ammo from general HK pistol use.

[OlongJohnson]

I'd pull some bullets and see if the ring is sitting in the case before it's fired. Could be shavings from some step of the mfg process.

[Hambo]

I'd pull some bullets and see if the ring is sitting in the case before it's fired. Could be shavings from some step of the mfg process.

Good idea. For Enel, https://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Ars...bullet+pullers

[JohnO]

My first thought was that something is happening at the end of the chamber at the transition from chamber to lead to rifling. If jacket material it could be from bullet profile and Over All Length.





I would take the barrel out of the gun, put a round in the chamber then do my best to put some pressure on the round while rotating it then look for any telltale markings.

[ssb]

Well shit. I squirreled away a couple of cases of this for a few classes this summer, both lot 1706. I've yet to fire any yet.

Enel, was there any rhyme or reason to when these issues showed up? Was it more frequently than once every hundred rounds or so? I'm asking since I suppose I'll need to test-fire some.

[Doc_Glock]

This ammunition continues to be problematic. I tried running it in a 9mm 1911 Range Officer and ended up with some over pressure rounds and bits of primer getting into and blocking the firing pin hole in the breech. I still have two full cases of the stuff. In discussion with Tim Poteet from PPU, he seems to feel it is intended for SMGs, not pistols. Otherwise he had nothing to offer.

Blocked firing pin hole:




Found the above in the firing pin channel after I started experiencing light strikes.



I think that is primer bulge, but have never actually seen it before.



Avoid this stuff.




Unfortunately I was shooting both 115 and 124 grain today and I couldn’t tell you which it was. I have shot up all the 115 grain at this point but still have two cases of 124 grain left. If I have any problems going forward it will be the 124. I hope it was the 115 that has the issue.

I certainly won’t shoot it in this particular gun going forward. I am debating just sending the two cases back to SGA as they offered a refund, I just don't know how it works with shipping, etc.

Guns so far that don’t like this ammo:
Walther PPQ
STEYR M9A1
Springfield Range Officer 1911
HK P30
Beretta PX4

That is a broad selection of quality firearms. I am surprised we are not hearing reports on problems from others.

Glocks and Beretta 92s don’t seem to mind it. >85% of shooters shoot Glocks, so maybe that is why

[Trooper224]

I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze, send it back.

[GuanoLoco]

That’s over-pressure, and showing evidence of primer flow on what I suspect is already a very hard primer. Primer flow precedes primer piercing, which allows a high pressure stream of hot gas to be shot at your firing pin and/or breech face, potentially eroding either or both. I’ve seen weaker cases (usually Win) rupture at the base of the case at the end of the case head - this will give you a face full of blowback gunk from many semi-autos.

Send it back.

[Doc_Glock]

That’s over-pressure, and showing evidence of primer flow on what I suspect is already a very hard primer. Primer flow precedes primer piercing, which allows a high pressure stream of hot gas to be shot at your firing pin and/or breech face, potentially eroding either or both. I’ve seen weaker cases (usually Win) rupture at the base of the case at the end of the case head - this will give you a face full of blowback gunk from amny semi-autos.

Send it back.

Sgammo has already issued a UPS call tag for my remaining cases. Great service from them. PPU...not so much.

And thank you!

[GuanoLoco]

The other clus tht this is a hard primer - usually in overpressure scenarios you will see a flattening of the primer, where the rounded edges inside of the red sealant at forced flat into the primer pocket against the breech face.

This is interesting in that there is extensive flow where the firing pin strikes, even to the point of that material coming off completely WITHOUT flattening the rest of the primer. I haven’t seen this before. This is also why I said it is a very hard primer on a very high pressure round - a softer primer would have flattened and/or pierced.

I’m also guessing that they used an overly fast-burning powder, rather than using a slower-burning powder that would get the desired velocity from a carbine length barrel without generating so much pressure.

https://www.gunnuts.net/2009/04/03/9...-vs-9mm-luger/

https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns...NATO/20-99093/

Maximum pressure specs:
C.I.P 9mm = 34,083 PSI (235 Mega-Pascals)
SAAMI 9mm = 35,000 PSI
SAAMI 9mm +P = 38,500 PSI
NATO 9mm = 36,550 PSI

So this SHOULD be < SAAMI +P in terms of pressure, which shouldn’t cause these problems, and I’m betting it is well over that pressure and/or there are other issue(s).