Criminals and firearms training

[Dagga Boy]

I found over the years of analyzing officer involved shootings that success was heavily based on a perfect balance of Mindset, Marksmanship, and Gun Handling/Tactics. Huge failures often resulted from Mindset issues. Contrary to popular belief, violence at high levels is learned and is not normal. Folks who can talk all sorts of crap about "what I would do" often don't or can't when the time comes, or make huge mistakes because of an inability to control themselves to the societal expectations for "good guys". Bad guys have a totally different set of expectations and their levels of control are different. Think about most robbery confrontations or criminal assaults. By nature these are not difficult marksmanship problems (inside 3 yards and any hit counts). Criminal mindset is often not hindered by any civilized societal expectations. In their culture, shooting victims is a rite of passage and not an issue. They often win the Mindset battle with most they face. One huge benefit cops get over the rest of those who lead an armed lifestyle is cops learn how to administer violence fairly early through pure exposure where most of the rest of society gets no immersion in this. I know for me, coming out of a Leave it to Beaver home life growing up and a liberal college experience, I had to quickly learn through doing to roll violence at the 100% level. You find out soon that the Academy training level used on other recruits does not work on the street. Once you figure out how to run the hose at wide open, you then need to figure out how to control the hose and turn it both on and off at switch level speed. There are really no "schools" for this part of the equation in civilized society. In criminal culture...school is always in session on violence application. Your Bill Drill or FAST time does not matter at all if you missed the assault ques, and lack the awareness to trigger the lethal violence switch against a criminal who is feeling emotional and physical elation and ectasy by shanking you.

[lwt16]

I found over the years of analyzing officer involved shootings that success was heavily based on a perfect balance of Mindset, Marksmanship, and Gun Handling/Tactics. Huge failures often resulted from Mindset issues. Contrary to popular belief, violence at high levels is learned and is not normal. Folks who can talk all sorts of crap about "what I would do" often don't or can't when the time comes, or make huge mistakes because of an inability to control themselves to the societal expectations for "good guys". Bad guys have a totally different set of expectations and their levels of control are different. Think about most robbery confrontations or criminal assaults. By nature these are not difficult marksmanship problems (inside 3 yards and any hit counts). Criminal mindset is often not hindered by any civilized societal expectations. In their culture, shooting victims is a rite of passage and not an issue. They often win the Mindset battle with most they face. One huge benefit cops get over the rest of those who lead an armed lifestyle is cops learn how to administer violence fairly early through pure exposure where most of the rest of society gets no immersion in this. I know for me, coming out of a Leave it to Beaver home life growing up and a liberal college experience, I had to quickly learn through doing to roll violence at the 100% level. You find out soon that the Academy training level used on other recruits does not work on the street. Once you figure out how to run the hose at wide open, you then need to figure out how to control the hose and turn it both on and off at switch level speed. There are really no "schools" for this part of the equation in civilized society. In criminal culture...school is always in session on violence application. Your Bill Drill or FAST time does not matter at all if you missed the assault ques, and lack the awareness to trigger the lethal violence switch against a criminal who is feeling emotional and physical elation and ectasy by shanking you.

Gold....pure gold.

[Totem Polar]

I found over the years... [pure gold] ...if you missed the assault ques, and lack the awareness to trigger the lethal violence switch against a criminal who is feeling emotional and physical elation and ectasy by shanking you.

That was good reading.

[JATA]

Do 1% Motorcycle Clubs have any vets in em? Hmmm

There are criminals with military training, there are criminals with LE training, there are criminal who train on their own and then "field test" their tactics with actual felonies.

(Like in MA) assuming you attacker is untrained and inexperienced is setting yourself up for failure.

You don't train to fight the stooge. You train to fight the hard core killer and HOPE you get the stooge.

[Eyesquared]

I saw this article linked on another forum and I thought it was worth linking here.

[Jeff22]

That's an interesting article!

[HCM]

Shamelessly stolen from TCinVA, but in Ed Mireles new book on the 1986 Miami shoot out he notes Platt and Matix had fired approximately 2500 rounds in practice the week before the shoot out.

Both were former Army NCOs. Platt was Infantry and a Ranger. Matix was an MP. Matix had prior service as a Marine (cook/food service). They were 100% mission focused.




https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....written-a-book

[breakingtime91]

I am thankful for my military service for several reasons but understanding violence and the ability to administrate it if needed was probably the most useful. I also gained in a insight on how to read people and determine what level I had to get to if I wanted to resolve an issue. Sometimes this just took a strong posture with my rifle slung to the side, pointing my rifle at them, or even going off safe and handling a situation. One thing that I didn’t expect was the skill level between enemy fighters and the cells that we would run into. Some were disorganized with little ammo and unzeroed rifles. Others ya full kit, optics, snipers, and machine guns. I quickly learned that there are people out there just as trained and willing to kill me and I had to wrap my western 19 year old head around that idea and that I had to be just as willing to end them also.


I try to maintain that mindset to this day. Always willing.

[Mark D]

Shamelessly stolen from TCinVA, but in Ed Mireles new book on the 1986 Miami shoot out he notes Platt and Matix had fired approximately 2500 rounds in practice the week before the shoot out.

Both were former Army NCOs. Platt was Infantry and a Ranger. Matix was an MP. Matix had prior service as a Marine (cook/food service). They were 100% mission focused.




https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....written-a-book

Good point. I knew those guys trained in the everglades (some of their victims were killed at informal shooting ranges in remote areas) but I had no idea they practiced that much.

[blues]

Good point. I knew those guys trained in the everglades (some of their victims were killed at informal shooting ranges in remote areas) but I had no idea they practiced that much.

This was a big concern back in those days. I had an informant that worked at Trail Glades Range back in the day and not only was there the danger of innocent shooters being attacked and left for dead for their firearms and vehicles, but it was also the site of many undercover narcotics ops and stings.

(In fact, my biggest pissing match with the FBI came about as a result of their trying to snatch up that particular informant as well as an operation that was already in place. Their attempt was dropped after some high level meetings and, well, we'll leave it at meetings .)

Add to that the range was also, for a time, utilized for our agency hand and long gun qualifications at the same time as some unsavory "paramilitary" type organizations, and most sane people would have done well to stay the hell away from there.

Ah, the good old days...