Criminals and firearms training

[HCM]

This was a big concern back in those days. I had an informant that worked at Trail Glades Range back in the day and not only was there the danger of innocent shooters being attacked and left for dead for their firearms and vehicles, but it was also the site of many undercover narcotics ops and stings.

(In fact, my biggest pissing match with the FBI came about as a result of their trying to snatch up that particular informant as well as an operation that was already in place. Their attempt was dropped after some high level meetings and, well, we'll leave it at meetings .)

Add to that the range was also, for a time, utilized for our agency hand and long gun qualifications at the same time as some unsavory "paramilitary" type organizations, and most sane people would have done well to stay the hell away from there.

Ah, the good old days...

Was there an actual range ? I thought there were just informal spots along the trail where people went to shoot?

[blues]

Was there an actual range ? I thought there were just informal spots along the trail where people went to shoot?

No, it was an actual range. It used to be privately owned, as I recall, but the county must've taken it over during a period when they were having financial difficulties.

[HCM]

Not really new info but relevant:

http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2018/0...guerillas.html

CJNG contracts ex Colombian Guerillas, affirms Governor of Jalisco

The governor of Jalisco, Jorge Aristóteles Sandoval Díaz, assured that the Jalisco Nueva Generación Cartel (CJNG) hired foreigners, including several former Colombian guerrillas, to train its members in strategies and use of weapons, and reported on it, four years ago, to the Attorney General's Office (PGR).

"Yes indeed we have known, not now, but for 5 years, where we have pointed out the articulation of this cartel with strategy and including expert people, not only from Colombia, but from other parts of the world, people who have had practice and training, guerrilla or even military, are those who have been hired to train their people, "said the state leader.

Sandoval Díaz explained that during his administration they have arrested people related to military and guerrilla training, in addition to having secured camps in the mountain areas of the state, that are difficult to access.

Otis: there have also been rumors that CJNG have received training from ex Mossad agents, as well as special forces NCO's from Spetznaz as well as other special forces groups. This may be true or it maybe propaganda put out to create fear. Time will tell with arrests.)

[psalms144.1]

No, it was an actual range. It used to be privately owned, as I recall, but the county must've taken it over during a period when they were having financial difficulties.

Ah, Trail Glades - spent plenty of hours sweating my gozangas off there during my final stint on Active Duty...

[Stephanie B]

Good point. I knew those guys trained in the everglades (some of their victims were killed at informal shooting ranges in remote areas) but I had no idea they practiced that much.

If I remember correctly, the guys who tried to blow up the WTC in `93 practiced shooting at High Rock, a state range in Naugatuck, CT. The gun club that runs the range keeps records of everyone who shoots there.

[Nephrology]

If I remember correctly, the guys who tried to blow up the WTC in `93 practiced shooting at High Rock, a state range in Naugatuck, CT. The gun club that runs the range keeps records of everyone who shoots there.

I used to shoot there all the time. Matter of fact, here is a photo of me on that very range.

[Stephanie B]

I used to shoot there all the time. Matter of fact, here is a photo of me on that very range.

I shot there from time to time, as well. Parking was horrible.

Damn the iPhone Typos!

[HCM]

If I remember correctly, the guys who tried to blow up the WTC in `93 practiced shooting at High Rock, a state range in Naugatuck, CT. The gun club that runs the range keeps records of everyone who shoots there.

Yes, among other places.

[Erick Gelhaus]

First go'round in gang suppression, we checked one of the big mini-golf / arcades locally. Found several gangsters playing one of the early first person shooter games. They were taking the cabled gun and shoving it in their waistbands. When the session started, they drew from concealment and went to work.

[Kan S LaTrans]

Let’s steer the discussion away from “military vs law enforcement shitbirds”. The pragmatic reality is there are nonzero numbers of dirtbags with badges and military creds. No agency the size of the US DoD or a metropolitan law enforcement agency is exempt from that mathematical fact. There isn’t a background check in history that can ID a candidate smart and lucky enough to avoid getting caught breaking the law.

So,returning to the subject of criminals and training; bad guys have access to both the internet and the old-school knowledge base of other crooks. As such I don’t operate under the notion a bad guy is automatically untrained or inexperienced.
I’ll end with this last relevant point; while many armed citizens are mechanically better shooters then criminals, most have the situational awareness of a brick. Microsecond Bill Drills won’t do squat if you let the perp get to conversational distance without being visually challenged . Conversely, you don’t need to be Robbie Leatham to deliver a round into a vital area at 1’ distance , a distance all too easy to achieve when the mark is head down updating their Instagram.

The training advantage as I view it isn’t in shooting mechanics; it’s in reading people and nonverbal cues to ID a potential attacker while he’s still far enough away to be avoided nonviolently. “Hey sir what time ya got” is just as deadly of an attack tool as a 1911 at close range.

I have to say something here. I have assiduously avoided internet forums for years because of the Amateur Hour and Bubba Gump Tactical mentality I have seen as exemplars of the membership.

I stumbled upon this forum while I was googling something else, and I read the post and the majority of the responses were either well-intentioned questions from people seeking answers, or contributions of pretty good information. So, I signed up.

After reading your response...which by the way has aligned nearly exactly with things I have said for years...I have to say, thank you for a truly insightful, reasonable, and intelligent response.

Keep your hat on tight....I think you might be a unicorn.