Criminals and firearms training

[Olim9]

There was a small discussion I had with some people in a class I recently attended where the subject of criminals getting formal firearms training was brought up. Somebody mentioned a student in a Haley Strategic class having to be kicked out who was later found getting charged with assault or battery, I forgot. Another anecdote was an LE officer pulling someone over that had an Arsenal AK with an Aimpoint sitting on it along with a chest rig loaded with mags. The suspect alledgedly had videos of him and his friends conducting bounding drills at the range. While all of this could be misconstrued as some shitheads dabbling in pretend operator shenanigans at the range as a side hobby, there has to be some amount of training more of the wiser criminals seek out but just how apparent is it? One example that comes to mind for me is the 2016 Dallas PD shooter who was in the National Guard and practiced using firearms after he was discharged from the military. For the LE guys here, how often are you finding violent suspects having indications of formal firearms training or things like modern field manuals at their homes?

[wsr]

Not LE but your first two examples aren’t really criminals

[olstyn]

On some level, if you live in a violent criminal world, gun school might increase your life expectancy by a considerably higher amount than it does for "normal" people who don't seek out stupid prizes for a living, right? It's really just a matter of whether bad actors are able to separate ego and intellect long enough to realize they could benefit from training, same as everybody else.

[HCM]

There was a small discussion I had with some people in a class I recently attended where the subject of criminals getting formal firearms training was brought up. Somebody mentioned a student in a Haley Strategic class having to be kicked out who was later found getting charged with assault or battery, I forgot. Another anecdote was an LE officer pulling someone over that had an Arsenal AK with an Aimpoint sitting on it along with a chest rig loaded with mags. The suspect alledgedly had videos of him and his friends conducting bounding drills at the range. While all of this could be misconstrued as some shitheads dabbling in pretend operator shenanigans at the range as a side hobby, there has to be some amount of training more of the wiser criminals seek out but just how apparent is it? One example that comes to mind for me is the 2016 Dallas PD shooter who was in the National Guard and practiced using firearms after he was discharged from the military. For the LE guys here, how often are you finding violent suspects having indications of formal firearms training or things like modern field manuals at their homes?

Your first two examples aren’t really hardcore or career criminals. Most responsible private fireams / self defense instructors require either a CCW License, LE / Military credentials or a criminal history clearance letter from your local LE Agency. Even then all it proves is not prior malevolent history.

Hard core career criminals such as gang members and members of extremist groups often join the military specifically to gain training in the use of weapons and tactics. In other cases former military or LE have gone over to the dark side. There are many former Mexican Military and LE involved in the cartels and there have been reports of cartels hiring former foreign and U.S. military veterans as trainers.

[David S.]

.......

[GardoneVT]

To quote a mediocre crime movie : “The Monster has Gone Digital”. Any number of tactical videos are freely available to anyone with a smartphone and internet access.

[SiriusBlunder]

Not LE, but I camr across some info on this topic a few years ago you may find interesting.

"Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation’s Law Enforcement Officers" was a publication from the FBI where researchers identified 40 cases of serious attacks on police officers and then interviewed both the officers and the attackers involved.

I haven't been able to find the complete publication, but there are excerpts and summaries around.

1 summary at http://www.forcescience.org/fsnews/62.html quotes:

Nearly 40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% “regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year,” the study reports, usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and “street corners in known drug-trafficking areas.”

Greg Ellifritz references this study and has some additional thoughts:

http://www.activeresponsetraining.ne...-vs-experience

[andre3k]

In my area the more sophisticated robbery crews have really upped the ante. The type of hardware that they are using now is leaps and bounds above what I was recovering when I started in the early 2000's. I can't say if they've had any formal training but they're definitely learning more sophisticated techniques from somewhere. Its not even weapons training I'm referring to, its just techniques that simply make them better crooks, more organized and harder for the police to capture them. One thing that is occurring with increasing frequency is robbery crews employing very comprehensive counter surveillance, encrypted comms via apps, and sniper deployment. Gangs are very regional but I'm seeing some scary stuff now, they are becoming very cartel-ish in their sophistication.

[Trooper224]

Our governments insistence on fighting two ill advised land wars over the last 15+ years has given the criminal element a great venue for free training. Active criminals intentionally enlist for such opportunities. The military is also full of a significant percentage of natural shitbags, who may not have been criminals when they went in but willingly become such upon discharge.

[MGW]

Our governments insistence on fighting two ill advised land wars over the last 15+ years has given the criminal element a great venue for free training. Active criminals intentionally enlist for such opportunities. The military is also full of a significant percentage of natural shitbags, who may not have been criminals when they went in but willingly become such upon discharge.

I should know better than to reply to this before I’ve had coffee but going to do it anyways.

Ill advised? Take that shit elsewhere.

Active criminals with a record don’t get in. Period. Enlistment standards are higher now than they have ever been. Do gang bangers get in the military? Occasionally. Do they stay in? Rarely. They make themselves known pretty quickly. Do they make it to or through advanced training where they learn how to do anything other than basic range training? Even a smaller percentage make it that far.

The military is full of a significant percentage of shit bags? You should know better trooper. That is a total bullshit statement and I have a real issue with it. If I made a similar statement about the LEO community, which I will not and would not, you would go completely apeshit. That statement is hyperbole at best. I’m honestly surprised that you would say something like that

There are documented cases of gang members getting into the military. It happens. Yes gangs such as MS13 have tried to use the military to gain training. But honestly it’s easier for them to do that in other countries. The military is not the jungle gym of criminal actors that you would lead others to believe.