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Thread: legit advice on modifications?

  1. #11
    I also hate this question because it flys past a significant assumption and fact. That assumption/fact is that you just SURVIVED a lethal encounter where someone was trying to kill you. It seems to me that the first goal should be to meet that assumption. When you are confronted with the level of violence where may have to use a firearm, if you are contemplating how a jury may think of this that or another, you may already be in trouble. You are playing for keeps. I think the first question when buying or possibly modifying a firearm for self-defense is how can you best put yourself in a situation to survive, not beat a rap. Let the lawyers do what they do and let the cards fall where they may. I would rather my daughter visit me in prison instead of my grave. A little dramatic? Maybe, but I think this issue of defense in a courtroom is collateral question to a more important one.


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  2. #12
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    I'm in the camp that "buying skill" might get you from 95% to 100% of your potential, but it's training and correct practice that gets you from 0% to 95%. Unless you've worked your way to 95%, spend the "new trigger money" on training.

  3. #13
    Dot Driver Kyle Reese's Avatar
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    An easy solution would be to just buy a factory new, G configured PX4 to eliminate this potential line of inquiry.

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  4. #14
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Jones View Post
    I'm going to humbly disagree that any modification to a gun is going to result in your family visiting you in prison vs visiting your grave. That is such a non-sequitur as to border on ridiculous. If someone feels that's true, that's great but I'd suggest they need to buy a different gun, to practice more, or to get training from a competent instructor (or all three). The good news is that we are in the golden-age of handguns and firearms instruction -- there are so many excellent choices of both currently available. Or people can cling to the assertion that they need to modify their gun or die.
    So, will the Gadget take the place of cigarettes for barter in the big house? Forewarned is forearmed.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

  5. #15
    Member Earlymonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mas View Post
    In conclusion, I respectfully recommend (1) Trigger pull in keeping with the gun manufacturer's minimum or greater duty spec; (2) If you don't like a particular safety device, buy a gun that doesn't have it to begin with; and (3) avoid Rambo-esque names and decor.
    I am most grateful, sir.

    ::wanders off in awe of the SME knowledge bombs that are ONLY dropped on P-F::

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_Jones View Post
    I'm going to humbly disagree that any modification to a gun is going to result in your family visiting you in prison vs visiting your grave. That is such a non-sequitur as to border on ridiculous. If someone feels that's true, that's great but I'd suggest they need to buy a different gun, to practice more, or to get training from a competent instructor (or all three). The good news is that we are in the golden-age of handguns and firearms instruction -- there are so many excellent choices of both currently available. Or people can cling to the assertion that they need to modify their gun or die.
    If you were referring to my post, I perhaps failed in showing the grave v. Prison point. My point in that comment is to say that making myself legally defensible is a secondary issue to surviving a lethal encounter. Putting myself in a position to look good in front of a jury necessarily depends on me having a heartbeat. And letís be honest, as an attorney, I can spin whatever I want. For example, I could possibly see an attorney spinning the fact that I practice at least once a week that I was itching for a fight. Does that mean I stop practicing or limit it? No. Itís about keeping the eye on the ball, which is self-defense.


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  7. #17
    So a lot of people worry about modifications and there's nothing concrete in law that will determine you guilty in a court of law based on a modification. There's stupid shit, like putting "you're fucked", other morale stuff, or punisher skulls. That will possibly go against you on the intent aspect.

    But putting sights, changing the pistol's factory configuration to another factory configuration, changing sights, or even changing triggers isn't going to land you in definite hot water. It's all scare tactics because the defense or prosecution brought it up in court. I can't tell you how many stupid things I've had to put up with when testifying on a case I investigated by a defense attorney. Just because they bring it up, doesn't mean anything. They'll throw shit all over the wall to see what sticks.

    I've asked this question a million times and no one can give me a legitimate answer. What is the difference between a guy using a Ruger 1911, or a Ed brown in a self defense situation? A factory glock, or an agency arms glock? If you can buy the configuration or send it to someone to get it made that way, there's no reasonable argument against using it. Now, if you're talking about sear work, whole different ball game potentially based on the outcome. But sights, decocker only mods, changing an HK45 from V1 to Light LEM, putting an SRT trigger in a P226, or anything like that isn't going to get you there. Some people are scared to stand up and defend themselves or be assertive now a days.

    You think what I'm saying is scary, listen to some thunder ranch classroom talk on youtube.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by navyman8903 View Post
    So a lot of people worry about modifications and there's nothing concrete in law that will determine you guilty in a court of law based on a modification. There's stupid shit, like putting "you're fucked", other morale stuff, or punisher skulls. That will possibly go against you on the intent aspect.

    But putting sights, changing the pistol's factory configuration to another factory configuration, changing sights, or even changing triggers isn't going to land you in definite hot water. It's all scare tactics because the defense or prosecution brought it up in court. I can't tell you how many stupid things I've had to put up with when testifying on a case I investigated by a defense attorney. Just because they bring it up, doesn't mean anything. They'll throw shit all over the wall to see what sticks.

    I've asked this question a million times and no one can give me a legitimate answer. What is the difference between a guy using a Ruger 1911, or a Ed brown in a self defense situation? A factory glock, or an agency arms glock? If you can buy the configuration or send it to someone to get it made that way, there's no reasonable argument against using it. Now, if you're talking about sear work, whole different ball game potentially based on the outcome. But sights, decocker only mods, changing an HK45 from V1 to Light LEM, putting an SRT trigger in a P226, or anything like that isn't going to get you there. Some people are scared to stand up and defend themselves or be assertive now a days.

    You think what I'm saying is scary, listen to some thunder ranch classroom talk on youtube.
    I just wish I could sit in a jury room to hear the discussion. Thatís where the rubber meets the road.


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  9. #19
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    I can only tell you what goes on in my neck of the woods... But when one person shoots another, it's the actions of the people involved that is investigated.

    IF the shooting was said to be an "accident" and the shooter claimed a malfunction, then that would be explored.

    I've never heard, been a part, of any kind of checking for after market striker springs or non OEM mag buttons to see if the gun is IDPA Stock Service Pistol compliant
    Last edited by nwhpfan; 04-22-2018 at 11:41 AM.
    A71593

  10. #20
    In most jurisdictions, a gun used in a shooting goes to the crime lab, where a firearms & toolmark examiner will give it a routine check to determine if it is in working order, if spent brass/test bullets match those in evidence, and weighing trigger pull is usually part of the mix. Among other things, in a genuine murder case they are looking to head off a claim by defense counsel that "the defective pistol went off by itself." Most of these reports that come across my desk will include trigger pull weight single and double action.

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