Got to try out a P30 vs. G17.5 vs. Px4 FS

[arcfide]

I was visiting some family and was without my standard allotment of firearms. We decided to go to the range, and to my pleasure I found that the rental options available there included a P30L TDA and a Glock 17 Gen 5. They also had a full size Px4 9mm.

Since the P30 seems to be well loved by people here (though it seems mostly with the LEM) and I recall having a very favorable impression of a G19 Gen 4 that I tried recently, I wanted to see how either one would compare in a friendly slow(er) fire match. I didn't have a Beretta APX to compare against (which is my current "favorite"), but I do shoot the Px4 quite often.

A long time ago I recalled being appalled by the HK DA trigger, but I had never been able to fire one. I figured that maybe my experiences at the counter wouldn't necessarily hold true on the range. Also, keep in mind that I'm not at all as experienced or capable a shooter as the rest of you. :-)

Anyways, I shot about 50 - 60 rounds from each platform to see how they compared with some simple one handed shooting. Due to a shoulder injury at the moment, I couldn't shoot two handed, so all of this was tested as SHO, and all slow fire give or take at a 7 - 10 yard target for 10 shot groups.

The P30 did not impress me at all. The grip felt good enough, but didn't sit in my hand while firing nearly as well as I thought it might. The "hump" tended to poke my palm more than I expected. The DA trigger was without a doubt the worst feature. I call it my literal "nightmare" trigger, because it is exactly like those triggers in my nightmare where I am pulling the trigger all the way to the rear of the gun but nothing happens. My shooting buddy tried it out as well as the first attempt to fire DA he didn't even get the shot off. Instead, he pulled through, and then had a massive dip/jerk about 200ms after he thought that he had pulled through the trigger, but nothing happened. Once the shock wore off, he was able to pull through the trigger much better.

While dry firing, I thought the SA on the P30 was fine enough, and I didn't think I would have much trouble shooting it. I kept them inside the black, as it were, but it was a lot more difficult than I expected. The trigger is textured, and that was causing me some real grief. Moreover, for some reason the break on the trigger and the overall feel were really strange, and it was very difficult to smoothly pull through the trigger or do any other trigger technique I'm familiar with. I had to really focus to get the gun to shoot where I wanted it to shoot.

Overall, the P30 was the hardest to shoot well for me between the three by a large margin. My buddy also remarked on the difficulty of shooting it well.

The G17 was another story. I think Glock's have been getting better and better recently, and the Gen. 5's seems nice. The grip texture was good, and I was surprised by the trigger as well. I was able to get a nice trigger pull on this gun and was getting nice, consistent groups. Unfortunately, I also found that the grip, much to my surprise, was more lively and slippery than I expected given the texturing. Basically, the grip would have a tendency to rotate and flip around a bit while I was firing, more so than the P30 or the Px4. The grip just doesn't sit well in my hand, and I think I had less purchase on it compared to the others. Even with that being the case, I still shot it much better than the P30.

All that said, both my buddy and I still favored the Px4 strongly over the others. While I doubt he's going to give up his PPQ .40 S&W for it, he remarked on how nice it felt under recoil and how soft shooting it was compared to the P30 or the Glock. He also remarked on how easy it was to track the gun under recoil for a follow-up shot. For me, I was surprised at how planted the gun felt compared to the P30 and the Glock, given the relatively slick texturing on the Px4 compared to the others. Since I don't have the others to compare against when I am at home, I usually tend to think of the Px4 as relatively slippery (compared to my APX, for instance). But when I compared it side by side with the P30 and the Glock, it was the one that slipped around the least in my hand with the least amount of grip strength applied to the gun.

On the Px4, the DA trigger and SA trigger were significantly easier to use and shoot well than the P30. While I have more trigger time on the Px4, I feel that I can say this objectively for a few specific reasons. The texturing on the P30 trigger made getting a smooth DA pull difficult, and exacerbated issues with trigger pull in SA. The wider, smoother trigger of the Px4, together with a much more consistent break point and a smoother, more rigid trigger pull throughout the travel of the trigger all contribute to making it much easier to shoot, at least for me.

I did find that I was a little more likely to have an "off shot" with the Px4 than the Glock, I also tended to shoot better groups with the Px4 on the whole.

Overall, it continues to amaze me just how different various platforms can feel when you actually shoot them side to side. Oh, and I really dislike the decocker location on the P30L. Just sayin'.

[Sensei]

Yeah, I’ve had that dream too - you try to pull the trigger but it’s either too heavy to will not break a shot. The only worse dream is showing up to class in your underwear.

Anyway, all of the platforms that you mention are reliable and accurate.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

On the Px4, the DA trigger and SA trigger were significantly easier to use and shoot well than the P30. While I have more trigger time on the Px4, I feel that I can say this objectively for a few specific reasons. The texturing on the P30 trigger made getting a smooth DA pull difficult, and exacerbated issues with trigger pull in SA. The wider, smoother trigger of the Px4, together with a much more consistent break point and a smoother, more rigid trigger pull throughout the travel of the trigger all contribute to making it much easier to shoot, at least for me.

An excellent evaluation! I would guess that the rental PX4 had the standard hammer spring. The differences might have been more pronounced with a reduced power hammer spring, too.

[einherjarvalk]

The million dollar question on the P30L is whether or not it had the reduced power firing pin block spring. That $5 spring takes the P30 V3 DA pull from bad to "perfectly fine" and actually makes the SA pretty good too. Now that my P30L V3 is broken in and I replaced the FPBS, the DA is smooth and consistent and the only major noticeable difference between my P30L and USP Tactical in SA is the lack of an overtravel stop.

[arcfide]

It was a stock P30L if I had to guess, and I doubt they did anything to it. I've heard that a lot of people are able to do things to the HK pistols to make them feel better in DA (particularly) but I have yet to have the good fortune to try one out in person.

And without a doubt, all of these firearms are quality firearms and will outshoot me. I see this more of an evaluation of "user experience" and UX/Design/Ergonomics than anything related to the serviceability of the firearms, just to be clear.

[Sensei]

It was a stock P30L if I had to guess, and I doubt they did anything to it. I've heard that a lot of people are able to do things to the HK pistols to make them feel better in DA (particularly) but I have yet to have the good fortune to try one out in person.

And without a doubt, all of these firearms are quality firearms and will outshoot me. I see this more of an evaluation of "user experience" and UX/Design/Ergonomics than anything related to the serviceability of the firearms, just to be clear.

Actually, remarkably little can be done to the HK to really improve upon it. At least, not compared to the Sig or Beretta, and not unless you are willing to spend a small fortune making it happen. For example, you can install the reduced weight firing pin block spring, nickle sear spring, and 12 lb hammer spring to marginally improve the stacking of the trigger weight that occurs at the end of the pull and shave about 1 lb off the DA weight. However, it does nothing for the DA lengths (both pull and reset). I know this because last week I made the mods to a USP45, P2000, and P30. Meaningful improvements in the HK trigger cost about $600 and a 25-week trip to Lazy Wolf Guns - so grab a snickers. I know because I just did that too.

On the other hand, the Langdon TJIAB and 14lb hammer spring dramatically smooths out the Beretta DA weight, reduces it by about 3 lbs, and shortens the pull and reset by 1/3. When it comes to the Sig, a factory SRT kit, Gray Guns P-SAIT, and 19 lb hammer spring reduces pull by 2 lbs, eliminates overtravel, and gives the gun the shortest reset available in a non-1911 gun. Simply put, the Beretta and Sig are among the most user friendly DA/SA platforms to customize when it comes to triggers; the HK, not so much.

If the HK DA trigger is really bugging you and you don’t want to sell a kidney, then give the light LEM a try. You may find that, with a little practice, it will be a very practical trigger option. Then again, you may hate it like a hemorrhoid.

[arcfide]

If the HK DA trigger is really bugging you and you don’t want to sell a kidney, then give the light LEM a try. You may find that, with a little practice, it will be a very practical trigger option. Then again, you may hate it like a hemorrhoid.

Since I don't own an HK, it doesn't bug me at all. :-) I'm currently more or less settled in on my "platforms," so most of my work is going into building up my own skills and mental game more than anything else, rather than acquiring new pistol types. On the other hand, I like to see what's out there now and again, but I'm usually restricted to what some gun store has for rental, because I'm not going to buy them outright unless I see some compelling reason to do so. The APX was the first semi-auto handgun that I liked enough to get on top of my Px4s that I've been running for a while.

Thanks for the comparison of the various options available for the TDA brands!

[Doc_Glock]

Nice that there are options. All good. Also interesting to get how different guns appeal do different folks.

I used to have all three of these but disliked the PX4 and ditched it. Despite the forum’s enthusiasm for it, I could not bring myself to like the grip, and my copy was not as reliable as I liked.

But for a plastic gun with a superb trigger, the PX4 with a TJIB is the model to beat.

[navyman8903]

So, on the P30L it's a difficult beast to master sometimes. I've had a P30LS for years now. I hated it. I had a P30 V3 and a P30LS at one point. I hated the trigger, but loved the gun. I sold the P30 and kept the P30LS which I did try to sell but decided not to. In order to get used to the P30LS, I forced myself to use it for 90 days. I would review/shoot other guns, but that was my only gun. The gun I carried, the gun I slept with, the gun I shot at the range the most. Now I run it very quickly and well. The only trigger job I have on the gun is 3000+ rounds on it. I'm not going to pretend it was a smooth road to getting proficient with it, but I got there. It's a very rewarding gun to shoot. The biggest mistake people make with the P30 series is not shooting it enough. The smoothest trigger pull was the last one of the day. They get progressively smoother and they lighten up a bit. They're very tightly sprung. If you add the lighter springs it dials the trigger in, but there's indeed nothing to do about the over all travel. Because that was the German contract specs for some stupid reason. If the P30 series had the HK45 trigger, everyone would have one.

Don't get me wrong, it has its faults. The DA travel is too long, and the SA reset sucks also. It's just like a Sig MK25 stock without an SRT treatment. I ordered a P30L V1 light LEM to complement the P30L I have now and to work with my P30sk V1.

I must admit I've never run into a "Texture" issue on the trigger of the P30 series. But it's the shooters perception not mine that matters. I still haven't shot the PX4 yet, I'll try to rent one later to compare. Most issues people have with the P30 are the trigger travel and hammer spring weight. There's actually a bunch of guns including berettas with the identical travel, the P30 just has the weight with it. If you look at my most recent videos with the P30 you'll see I'm running it very quickly and easily. It's just time and rounds down range. Nothing internal. I'm leaving my P30LS stock, and most likely my P30L V1 when I get it.

[HKmanlp1]

I have never shot a PX4. Just don't like the look of them at all. The P30 is one of the finest looking pistols ever made. But I could of put Helen Keller on a tilt a whirl and gotten a better designed trigger/pull. So all my P30's are long gone. And Glocks are Glocks are Glocks........

But if I had to pick one. I would take the PX4. Even though I have never shot one. But if it's any thing like my 92's, I know that I would probably enjoy it after a Langdon Trigger job in bag was installed.