Tips for working on shooting on the run/sprint

[Randy Harris]

I can't wait til October....

Having said that.....with regards to more coarse sight pictures ..... when applied to the realistic social (or anti social?) distance problems and combative use of the pistol the coarse sight pic or Alternative Indexing Methods like using the front sight only, the back plate , corner of slide, corner of the inboard tilted RMR, "Metal on Meat", "Ghost Gun", "guillotine" , etc etc, (basically if you can see it on the gun in your visual cone you can aim with it) all work pretty well inside 5 yards even when moving quickly enough to avoid your opponent's aim. I think what Gabe is doing is taking the sight picture (movie) and going the opposite direction. His sight movie is shot in IMAX HD instead of a sloppy copy shot by hand in CinemaScope. Both make movies but one is a lot less focused than the other. So instead of accepting that holding a post and notch sight picture (while moving) is problematic for the overwhelming majority of folks and instead using Alternative Indexing Methods to visually orient the gun on target, he is instead forcing himself to maintain that post and notch even during movement (which ain't easy) and I look forward to discussing that more in depth in October.

As mentioned by someone previously, you really need to separate lower and upper body. The body acts like a stabilizer or gyroscope so the feet hitting the ground don't make the gun bounce and jerk. Also the trigger press has to be SMOOTH and not be just running amok jerking the gun and trigger like you are milking a cow. Also as mentioned previously ...the majority of shooters really don't have the exposure, training, or reps of doing this to make it work on demand "in the streets" . But within the proper distance envelope it CAN be done. I always chuckle a little as people are "worried" about "shoot while moving" stages at matches...largely because they never practice it...I just take off and shoot because I do practice it. It's not magic, it is just a physical skill that requires exposure, training and practice.

[Mr_White]

I can't wait til October....

Having said that.....with regards to more coarse sight pictures ..... when applied to the realistic social (or anti social?) distance problems and combative use of the pistol the coarse sight pic or Alternative Indexing Methods like using the front sight only, the back plate , corner of slide, corner of the inboard tilted RMR, "Metal on Meat", "Ghost Gun", "guillotine" , etc etc, (basically if you can see it on the gun in your visual cone you can aim with it) all work pretty well inside 5 yards even when moving quickly enough to avoid your opponent's aim. I think what Gabe is doing is taking the sight picture (movie) and going the opposite direction. His sight movie is shot in IMAX HD instead of a sloppy copy shot by hand in CinemaScope. Both make movies but one is a lot less focused than the other. So instead of accepting that holding a post and notch sight picture (while moving) is problematic for the overwhelming majority of folks and instead using Alternative Indexing Methods to visually orient the gun on target, he is instead forcing himself to maintain that post and notch even during movement (which ain't easy) and I look forward to discussing that more in depth in October.

As mentioned by someone previously, you really need to separate lower and upper body. The body acts like a stabilizer or gyroscope so the feet hitting the ground don't make the gun bounce and jerk. Also the trigger press has to be SMOOTH and not be just running amok jerking the gun and trigger like you are milking a cow. Also as mentioned previously ...the majority of shooters really don't have the exposure, training, or reps of doing this to make it work on demand "in the streets" . But within the proper distance envelope it CAN be done. I always chuckle a little as people are "worried" about "shoot while moving" stages at matches...largely because they never practice it...I just take off and shoot because I do practice it. It's not magic, it is just a physical skill that requires exposure, training and practice.

There definitely is a 'different ends of the same spectrum' thing going on with the difference between how I do it (sights) and the coarser aiming methods (metal on meat, etc.) That difference has largely been born of me trying to expand the workable envelope of this beyond COM at 3-5 yards, as well as increase shot accountability, which is a chief complaint against shooting on the move, and especially on the run. The coarser methods certainly can work on the easier shooting problems.

I'm looking forward to October too!

[Clusterfrack]

Writing this from the range as I’m wrapping up a 400 round session.

I ran the 95 point stage below two ways: moving when possible, and posting up in between reloads.
HF 5.63 moving, down 8
HF 6.3 posting up, clean

[Clobbersaurus]

This is a great thread. I have been working all off season with shooting on the move. Every dry practice session is done on the move, which usually only allows me to take a couple of steps due to my practice space, but I do think it is really helping with my confidence to take targets on the move. Live practice has also been done with a very large portion shooting on the move and into and out of position.

What I find difficult, is the lack of live fire time and learning what types of sight pictures I need to see at certain distances and at certain speeds. I feel like getting good at these skills just takes time, practice and motivation to learn them. These days, if I am not out of breath and sweating after a range or dry practice session, it means I’m not practicing the stuff I need to practice to develop these skills. Progressing to Master requires these skills, so it’s not an option to just practice the fun stuff anymore.

[markman]

This is a great thread. I have been working all off season with shooting on the move. Every dry practice session is done on the move, which usually only allows me to take a couple of steps due to my practice space, but I do think it is really helping with my confidence to take targets on the move. Live practice has also been done with a very large portion shooting on the move and into and out of position.

What I find difficult, is the lack of live fire time and learning what types of sight pictures I need to see at certain distances and at certain speeds. I feel like getting good at these skills just takes time, practice and motivation to learn them. These days, if I am not out of breath and sweating after a range or dry practice session, it means I’m not practicing the stuff I need to practice to develop these skills. Progressing to Master requires these skills, so it’s not an option to just practice the fun stuff anymore.

Yeah - I had no idea how much good info that simple question would bring, but I am glad I asked it and tagged those who are so knowledgeable. I have been working on it around my house with a sirt gun and plan to take it live fire today.

[GJM]

Besides the shooting on the move or not question, there is shooting into and out of position which is worth gobs of time, if done properly.

[YVK]

I ran the 95 point stage below two ways: moving when possible, and posting up in between reloads.
HF 5.63 moving, down 8
HF 6.3 posting up, clean

Which shows how important the knowledge of where it pays or hurts to SOM is for an individual level of skill. I racked up 4 mikes in 6 stages yesterday trying to SOM and keep up with young bucks.

[Clobbersaurus]

Which shows how important the knowledge of where it pays or hurts to SOM is for an individual level of skill. I racked up 4 mikes in 6 stages yesterday trying to SOM and keep up with young bucks.

Yep.

9/10 of the game is working your stage plan to maximize your strengths and minimize your weaknesses. I’m a big believer in your speed being dictated by your sighting needs, and Steve Anderson’s mantra of “if you make a decision about speed or accuracy you will make the wrong decision every time”.

[Mr_White]

It is really early and I'm on just a couple hours of sleep and hanging out at the airport waiting for check in to open - seems like a good time to post lol.

Just got done with class in VA, hosted by the excellent Green Ops crew - many thanks to Brett and Andy!

Anyway, part of the class is doing the shooting while breaking into a run. It requires some very specific points, and individual build-up dry and live. I was again extremely impressed that good shooters, plus doing the right things, produced such a high percentage of what we would call good hits, with very few actual bad shots. Many center punch hits were made on the first try. Some people were able to hit the 4" circle in the head even in the initial introduction after doing it dry a little bit. It's doable!

[SC_Dave]

So because of this thread I spent time working on this yesterday (walking not running). I'm not good at this at all. As mentioned in a previous post here I have one replacement knee joint and one that needs replacing. My gate is stiff and herky-jerky at best. I had 2 targets set about 12 yards apart and alternated shots back and forth while walking and shooting straight toward the center between the two targets and while backing away from them. I figured out a step and a gate that had 'less" movement of the dot. Taking the advice from here I only shot when I had and acceptable dot. I had misses no doubt, but at the end of the session I had fewer and got a little faster. I appreciate the advise I picked up here. More work to do.
David