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Thread: Tips for working on shooting on the run/sprint

  1. #21
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    I find it easier with a dot... it makes a nice red trace as it moves. As you refine your index, you'll figure out how to keep the dot in sight, and how to get it back when you lose it. Takes work! That said, I'm an irons guy, partially for the reasons you mention.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 04-19-2018 at 01:10 PM.
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  2. #22
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markman View Post
    I am using a red dot. I am also more comfortable with a less than ideal while moving sight picture with irons than I am with loss of dot or dot not in ideal position in relation to target. I am wondering if the principle is the same I just don't have enough shooting while on the move reps with the dot to understand and accept that reasonable margin of error in alignment. Does this make sense?
    Yes. I'm not a dot user, but it is reported by many who are, that a significant thing in learning to use the dot is redefining the wobble zone in terms of the dot instead of irons. That usually amounts to becoming accustomed to proceeding with the trigger pull with the dot in an apparently-significant degree of motion. The wobble zone just looks a lot worse with the dot than irons - you have to get used to it.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_White View Post
    Yes. I'm not a dot user, but it is reported by many who are, that a significant thing in learning to use the dot is redefining the wobble zone in terms of the dot instead of irons. That usually amounts to becoming accustomed to proceeding with the trigger pull with the dot in an apparently-significant degree of motion. The wobble zone just looks a lot worse with the dot than irons - you have to get used to it.
    Yeah, I am feeling like I have a double standard for dot vs irons lol

  4. #24
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markman View Post
    Yeah, I am feeling like I have a double standard for dot vs irons lol
    Totally. My problem is the opposite. I constantly struggle with NOT accepting too much wobble in irons. So easy--especially on steel--to be optimistic about your sight picture with iron sights.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  5. #25
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Totally. My problem is the opposite. I constantly struggle with NOT accepting too much wobble in irons. So easy--especially on steel--to be optimistic about your sight picture with iron sights.
    This is getting tangential but it's related. I love Tom Knapp's quote, roughly, 'It doesn't matter if the target is a watermelon or a baby aspirin - if you shoot for the center, it's all the same.' That well-describes an extremely core aspect of making shooting on the run actually work: pick a specific target spot, aim at it using the most precise and certain reference (sights/dot/laser), recognize that the wobble zone is both a lot worse than standing still but also still workable (and to recognize the limits of its workability), smooth the movement to aid minimization of the wobble zone, and trigger the gun carefully.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_White View Post
    This is getting tangential but it's related. I love Tom Knapp's quote, roughly, 'It doesn't matter if the target is a watermelon or a baby aspirin - if you shoot for the center, it's all the same.' That well-describes an extremely core aspect of making shooting on the run actually work: pick a specific target spot, aim at it using the most precise and certain reference (sights/dot/laser), recognize that the wobble zone is both a lot worse than standing still but also still workable (and to recognize the limits of its workability), smooth the movement to aid minimization of the wobble zone, and trigger the gun carefully.
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Totally. My problem is the opposite. I constantly struggle with NOT accepting too much wobble in irons. So easy--especially on steel--to be optimistic about your sight picture with iron sights.
    Makes a ton of sense @Mr_White. @Clusterfrack yeah my accuracy never suffers because mentally (even if training and trying to have the wheels come off, I am uncomfortable with releasing a shot knowing a deadly projectile is coming out the other end).

  7. #27
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markman View Post
    Makes a ton of sense @Mr_White. @Clusterfrack yeah my accuracy never suffers because mentally (even if training and trying to have the wheels come off, I am uncomfortable with releasing a shot knowing a deadly projectile is coming out the other end).
    Wow, great thread!

    And now I'm getting even more tangential... but I think it's still related. There is a big difference when you are trying to absolutely guarantee a hit. In the defensive/tactical world, and even in competition, this is obviously a critical skill. However, I am absolutely confident that in training, it is important to push to the point of missing. This is how we learn not just to go faster, but what the limits of our current skills are. At what distance would you take a head shot with a no-shoot behind it? What if you and/or the target were moving?

    So, @markman, I urge you to let your training take you a little farther toward the edges.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Wow, great thread!

    And now I'm getting even more tangential... but I think it's still related. There is a big difference when you are trying to absolutely guarantee a hit. In the defensive/tactical world, and even in competition, this is obviously a critical skill. However, I am absolutely confident that in training, it is important to push to the point of missing. This is how we learn not just to go faster, but what the limits of our current skills are. At what distance would you take a head shot with a no-shoot behind it? What if you and/or the target were moving?

    So, @markman, I urge you to let your training take you a little farther toward the edges.
    Yes, I must somehow muster the courage (?is that right?) to take the misses/less perfect shots. It's funny because when I am in the gym I will go for PR's without a spot on the most dangerous lifts like bench and squat, but when it comes to somehow jeopardizing someone else by this piece of speedy lead coming out of my barrel, it's a real hard bridge for me to cross.

  9. #29
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Wow, great thread!

    And now I'm getting even more tangential... but I think it's still related. There is a big difference when you are trying to absolutely guarantee a hit. In the defensive/tactical world, and even in competition, this is obviously a critical skill. However, I am absolutely confident that in training, it is important to push to the point of missing. This is how we learn not just to go faster, but what the limits of our current skills are. At what distance would you take a head shot with a no-shoot behind it? What if you and/or the target were moving?

    So, @markman, I urge you to let your training take you a little farther toward the edges.
    That's a really excellent post, Clusterfrack! Totally agree. There are obviously a number of ways to address the issue, and I do think that there are multiple valid routes, but what you expressed is exactly how I envision solving that riddle (for an enthusiast - that is critically important to recognize.) Spend practice resources pushing in various ways, trying to deepen skill level by addressing tasks and problems that we can succeed at some, but not all, the time. Also spend practice resources to forge and maintain correct (read that as error-free/low rate of error) application of our existing skill level - that is the on-demand performance we are all ultimately seeking and what shooting is truly all about.
    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

  10. #30
    Leopard Printer Mr_White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    This is how we learn not just to go faster, but what the limits of our current skills are. At what distance would you take a head shot with a no-shoot behind it? What if you and/or the target were moving?
    And I want to single out this point for further agreement. Knowing your technical limits is very much a part of what is learned by practicing outlying, narrow-application technical skills like shooting on the run. Know what you can reliably do, and what you cannot. There are many shots I set up for practice, that are worthy in pursuing technical improvement, but do not necessarily represent on-demand engagement circumstances for me (even on the range.)

    These videos are all examples of my practice oriented both toward pursuing hard technical problems, and refining my sense of what I can and can't reliably do. If someone is going to shoot 300 rounds a year and otherwise not practice (hypothetical example), I wouldn't tell them to do any of this. That person should probably exclusively practice correctly applying their existing skill level.

















    Technical excellence supports tactical preparedness
    Lord of the Food Court
    http://www.gabewhitetraining.com

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