Why not have both? A well placed shot still needs to perform to a certain level of proficiency.Originally Posted by Randy Harris
Why not have both? A well placed shot still needs to perform to a certain level of proficiency.
All, thanks for the information. Looks like this is my last lot of Hornady 9x19, and I will go back to Federal and Speer.
The far bigger problem is getting people to deliver them where they need to go. The best ammo in the world isn’t going to make a trigger yanker shoot any better, yet well delivered ball ammo still kills mother “ f”ers dead....so which is MORE important? Ammo performance is rarely the problem...it’s normally shooter performance. I’m all for good quality ammo but arguing tiny percentage points of this vs that ammo is a waste of valuable training time. The better you can shoot , the better you can shoot. And 100 years ago they had far lower performance ammo than we have now ....yet all the guys killed with it are still dead.
My point is simply pick one that has acceptable performance and works reliably in your pistol and then get off the fucking internet and go train to the highest standard of marksmanship that you can attain. And stop worrying about which ammo is “best”.
Last edited by Randy Harris; 04-22-2018 at 08:56 AM.
This is disingenious as the two pursuits are not mutually exclusive.
Your sole purpose in this thread is to discourage people from seeking knowledge in order to make fully informed decisions about what they're feeding their gun....this is counter to the purpose of this thread and the forum in general. Using the internet to tell people to "get off the fucking internet" as if they're doing something wrong is pretty, as well (hint, Randy you're on the internet wasting time instead of training, too).
Last edited by TGS; 04-22-2018 at 09:06 AM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
So, my question is...where can we sign up for some of that FBI training?
It seems to me that the FBI search for better ammunition performance began when solid shot placement alone was not sufficient to end the fight.
Last edited by JSGlock34; 04-22-2018 at 12:45 PM.
"When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."
I had the same question. It depend on the resources your local FBI office has. The actual Field Office (as opposed to local resident agency’s) should have a training coordinator who can direct you.So, my question is...where can we sign up for some of that FBI training?
Last edited by HCM; 04-22-2018 at 12:46 PM.
Yes....and no. Ammunition failure alone did not account for the tragedy in Miami. There were a Cascade of poor pre-fight decisions that have to be looked at as well. Some of that is 20-20 hindsight bias...but some isn't. And even if it's unfair to judge based on hindsight, you should absolutely learn from it. With the info the agents had at the time, there were decisions made about equipment and weapons deployment (some by the agents, some by management) that were less than optimal. The situation isn't unique to that incident, either. LE as a whole seems to have a corner on the complacency market.
Reminds me of the ten or twelve deadly errors that every LEO should review from time to time.
There's nothing civil about this war.
I don't think Randy is saying it doesn't matter, just that maybe too much attention is paid to minutiae by individual shooters in this area. Folks whose job it is to be concerned about this have to dive deep, and we're all gun geeks here. Agency armorer's and ammo designers should always be striving to improve and field the best stuff. But none of us are ill served by any of the good high quality stuff from Federal, Winchester, Speer, Etc. A current Tier 1 guy told a coworker of mine, "You know what the real difference is between .40 and 9mm? Nothing. Shoot 'em in the face." Obviously a simplification, but the point is valid. Yes, they're not mutually exclusive, but how much we devote to this can be a problem.
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