Kit setup: Light and fast or heavy and steady?

[heyscooter]

Sneaky Bags are the heat. We have them for our office and they are totally worth it.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Go Light, seriously Go Light.

The basis for that is military experience from the Cold War into the current fight - though I'm by no means current - and L/E experience. My back wasn't jacked up until a deploymnt where, we all suffered from Bakara Market issues, and carried way too much stuff. I didn't need to carry all the magazines (at a Lb a piece) my chest rig could hold plus a bunch of 40mm rounds (over hard & soft armor) when I had a gun truck to carry most of that. My knees might have been less abused too.

After that trip, I heard from others & listened. Military - one magazine in the carbine, three on the armor plus various actually needed items rather than wanted ones. Doing civilian police work, I've already got soft armor on as well as a pistol and spare magazines. The carbine has two 20rd magazines in it while the are two spare 30rd magazines on a plate carrier. I'll wear hard armor & a helmet when needed, but I don't look for those opportunites.

I think it was DB who pointed out that it would make far more sense for the vast majority of people to get really good with what they actually carry.

[navyman8903]

Go Light, seriously Go Light.

The basis for that is military experience from the Cold War into the current fight - though I'm by no means current - and L/E experience. My back wasn't jacked up until a deploymnt where, we all suffered from Bakara Market issues, and carried way too much stuff. I didn't need to carry all the magazines (at a Lb a piece) my chest rig could hold plus a bunch of 40mm rounds (over hard & soft armor) when I had a gun truck to carry most of that. My knees might have been less abused too.

After that trip, I heard from others & listened. Military - one magazine in the carbine, three on the armor plus various actually needed items rather than wanted ones. Doing civilian police work, I've already got soft armor on as well as a pistol and spare magazines. The carbine has two 20rd magazines in it while the are two spare 30rd magazines on a plate carrier. I'll wear hard armor & a helmet when needed, but I don't look for those opportunites.

I think it was DB who pointed out that it would make far more sense for the vast majority of people to get really good with what they actually carry.

I feel you on the carrying too much stuff. I've got that problem now on duty. I'm trying to take the things I know that do work from what I do now, into a much smarter and slick setup. I've already got the overt kit covered, which I will almost certainly never use. I need to square away my covert setup and use it at the range/train with it. I think the sneaky bag, with a low profile plate carrier with 3 mags, have the same battle belt rig on I'm used to with the two rifle mags, and two pistol mags. That way they support each other. I might also get a high threat concealment rig to keep it tighter on my body/more low profile. Not that I want to spend the money, but I was thinking about getting one. Deployment money right?

I do have to get a solid setup and play around with it a bit to get it where I want it.

[heyscooter]

I might also get a high threat concealment rig to keep it tighter on my body/more low profile. Not that I want to spend the money, but I was thinking about getting one. Deployment money right?

Paging TGS back to the thread.

Save your money, it's not worth it. I've been issued two sets, the HTC stuff just doesn't conceal as well as you want it to for that price point. On top of that, it's plastic and get jab into you in certain areas (think confined spaces, or seats in cars and planes). I recommend doing the BFG ten speed route. lighter, way more comfortable, and not as expensive.

PM me for ideas on going light. I can only echo what was said earlier: go as light as possible.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Were I trying to stay low profile, even covert, I would stick with a handgun & spare handgun ammo on my person. Spare carbine magazines would go wherever the carbine is. I would consider trying to conceal them all the time on me.

In addition to Light, I'd add Reasonable. But that is my view.

[jeep45238]

Unless I had specific cause to go heavy, I’d go with a pistol/reload on person and a takedown carbine and some generic food/med/land nav/water purification with more ammo in a small backpack. Generally speaking I think you get farther by avoiding sketchy situations and minimizing your profile, but having options to deal with close up to a few hundred yards out while keeping that low profile is the way I would go.

[Surf]

After 17 years of using armor anywhere 3-5 days per week on average and from a full-time team perspective, I almost always opt for light and fast. Meaning a base armor/helmet set-up and loadout, or loadup from there. By loadup I mean that I utilize sub-loads, or various sized packs to increase the loadout as necessary. I go anywhere from a smaller pack with extra mags and an upgraded trauma kit, all the way up to a three-day pack , but the base level is light and fast in concept.

ETA - now that I am only a part time volunteer, still with my unit, I only find myself in armor maybe 2-3 times a month. I don't hate it as much as I used to, probably because I don't wear it as much, but I don't miss it either.

[JDD]

Paging TGS back to the thread.

Save your money, it's not worth it. I've been issued two sets, the HTC stuff just doesn't conceal as well as you want it to for that price point. On top of that, it's plastic and get jab into you in certain areas (think confined spaces, or seats in cars and planes). I recommend doing the BFG ten speed route. lighter, way more comfortable, and not as expensive.

PM me for ideas on going light. I can only echo what was said earlier: go as light as possible.

I have been issued the HTC belt rig. It does not work well for my body type, and it did not really work well as a fully concealed belt system.

TGS said it well, as did scooter. Go light, go layers, have the ability to be somewhat concealed and escalate as appropriate. I am a solid believer and a huge fan of the rodesian rig setup that you can throw on over whatever other kit you have on.

My loadout the last time I was in a remarkably non-permissive environment was: soft and hard plates under my shirt in a lo-profile carrier, pistol mags and TQ on belt, backpack with blowout kit/ifac, sat phone, gps, toilet paper, flashlight, electronic ear pro, rhodie rig, and long gun (small). I left my helmet in the vehicle for dismounts, along with another bag of additional goodies. (this may not work for you, but my react to contact is heavily focused on immediate accountability followed by the most expeditious return to a safe area I can manage)

It's a loadout that is extremely low profile, but that allows me a chance to escalate up the response continuum fast enough to keep up with my anticipated threat situations. I also have a higher profile flack with more agency branding and identifying marks that I keep in the office, for a different kind of response where I need that instant visual authority. I still use the rhodie rig though, for the flexibility it offers, and the hi-pro kit does not get used as often.

[Dr. No]

I'm a full time SWAT guy and run a heavy rig and a PC for work. At most, I have 3 30rd mags on me and 3 pistol mags. These numbers include the one loaded in the guns. If I have over 145 rounds of work to do, brother ... it may be time to transition to nikes.

There are extra mags in the car, staged in my house, and in our armored vehicle. If we respond to Mumbai PT 2, the Tactical Boogaloo, I will throw a few in my dump pouch to back fill as needed.

Unless you have a mission set that is going to require you to go to the middle of nowhere with no resupply options and be self sufficient ..... I would look at going light.

[TGS]

Paging TGS back to the thread.

Save your money, it's not worth it. I've been issued two sets, the HTC stuff just doesn't conceal as well as you want it to for that price point. On top of that, it's plastic and get jab into you in certain areas (think confined spaces, or seats in cars and planes). I recommend doing the BFG ten speed route. lighter, way more comfortable, and not as expensive.

I have been issued the HTC belt rig. It does not work well for my body type, and it did not really work well as a fully concealed belt system.

All of my HTC bat-belt components are now disassembled into traditional stand-alone components. FWIW, we stopped issuing the full HTC bat-belt. The current issue still includes the inner/outer HTC Velcro belt system, but it's pretty much settled that attaching your pouches (current issue is both Raven and HSGI tacos) directly to the belt itself is a better option than the bat-belt.

As for concealment, I agree with JDD. A quick-don inner/outer belt setup doesn't conceal nearly as well as actual concealment gear setup directly on a single rigid belt. With the former, I need to wear shirts a size up (noticeably large on me) or use a jacket. With the latter, I can wear my regular shirts. We've had a bunch of guys try to use these setups in a suit, as well, to limited success. The inner/outer belt idea is more for reduced signature profiles as opposed to actual concealment, if that makes sense....so it might be exactly what you're looking for.

In which case, find an inner/outer belt system you like and just put whatever pouches you like best on it. I use the HSGI tacos for that because they're collapsible and less prone to be damaged in our expeditionary mission set....some of the other taco pouches being discussed in another current thread are probably a better option. I personally find the HSGIs to be difficult to re-"holster" your spent or partially used mags when you can't visualize them and are wearing lots of gear, a concealment garment, etc.

BFG Ten-Speed pouches are also very popular as HeyScooter mentioned.

My loadout the last time I was in a remarkably non-permissive environment was: yada yada yada....toilet paper...yada yada yada

Priorities.

This man gets it.