Kit setup: Light and fast or heavy and steady?

[navyman8903]

So I'm interested to see what everyone's perspective on this is. Now I have trouble daily with my "Oh shit kit" setup. I don't fully subscribe to the WROL or end of days stuff. I don't prep, but I have battle rattle setup for something should it happen. My issues boil down to wanting balance, but also enough ammo. I know as a single man, or even with my wife who has her PC and stuff also, it's the evasion/movement is life principle. So I'm starting to favor the plate carrier (TYR PICO) with 4-5 mags, and 2 on the battle belt for rifle, and 3 pistol mags on the battle belt. With one in each gun making 7-8 rifle mags (5.56) and 4 pistol mags (9mm or 45 based on how I feel). Which should be plenty, and also give me enough movement. But I also don't want to run out of ammo. I don't plan on getting into a fire fight, but if it ever did happen, I'm wondering what the magic number is. My duty assignments keep me in urban areas for the most part, so I have to be able to see myself out of a range of issues that could happen, but more than likely won't.

I know loadouts are based on the mission, but I'm looking for the most balance hoping never to have to use it. And yes I am factoring the additional junk I keep in the admin pouch, knife, light, multitool and blow out kit.

Just wondering what everyone else is running and if anyone has been successful with a kit setup over a long stretch of time. I know some dudes run 3 rifle mags and 2 pistol mags, and I know other's tend to run what they did in the Military when they get out, which is a full assault load, plus more because they've been in firefights.

Thoughts?

[TGS]

Chances are the most likely reason you would ever need this stuff would also warrant that it be concealed.

Given that, and the fact that you don't apparently have a clear view of why you need it or how it would be employed (if you did, you'd know your own answers here), I think keeping it light and layering is a smart idea. 1 rifle mag on the belt, 4-8 on a chest rig, and a random number (however many that doesn't interfere with carrying other gear) in your go-bag. Use a Velcro inner/outer belt instead of a very high profile battle belt, and the blue force gear ten-speed elastic ammo placards are fantastic for the bag, as they're very lightweight, stay out of the way when something isn't in them, and also fit a variety of things (multi-tools, GPS, radios, batteries, mags, lights, medical gear etc).

Like clothing, layering allows you to adjust on the fly to what you need.....whether it be a natural disaster mandating you relocate for a short period, a long period, complete collapse of government, or riots where you want to get out of town without attracting too much attention but also want stuff on you incase the situation goes sideways. If all you have is some coyote brown high-profile fantasy bullshit, you're going to feel like a huge idiot when something bad actually does happen (likely a natural disaster where there is increased crime but still rule of law) and you can't actually equip yourself for any increased threat because you're not in Iraq.

[Randy Harris]

Mission drives equipment. What are we trying to accomplish? For starters take a look at Tamara's article in Recoil...http://www.recoilweb.com/oh-spare-me...ad-132740.html. It is really geared toward CCW and EDC but my quote early in that article is applicable here.....if you empty a 30 rd center fire rifle mag in civilian world USA you're gonna be on the news...if you empty TWO you're gonna be in the encyclopedia.

Look at it this way....4 AR mags loaded with 28 rounds each would allow you to engage 4 people with 28 rounds each....or 28 people...with 4 rounds each....or allows you to engage 14 people with 8 rounds each..... plus whatever pistol mags you have. Doing the math often changes the perspective.

Is that something you REALLY expect to need to do? I'm not saying that CAN'T happen I'm simply saying you should be asking if that is likely in your particular situation. You can roll with 3 mags on your plate carrier and 2 in the gun with a mag coupler and now have 28 x 5 (28 people 5 rounds each or 14 people 10 rounds each) plus whatever pistol mags and probably have far more ammo than you will ever shoot barring the straight up end of civilization and end of the world as we know it scenarios. To be honest, a 20 rd mag in your rifle is unlikely to get emptied so 4 or 5 30rd mags will probably be fine for everything short of global collapse.

At home for HD I generally roll with the rifle loaded with a 30 or 40 round mag. If I have to deal with the extremely unlikely late night home invasion I'm probably gonna only have time to grab the gun the soft armor and hopefully my shoes and get to cover. And a reload is really unlikely to be needed if I have that many rounds on tap to begin with....and besides ...people hit with rifle rounds tend to stop doing bad things without having to be told very many times. So 30 to 40 is probably about 25 to 35 more than I'd ever need.

Now I generally travel a little heavier since all I will have until I get home is probably what I will have brought with me. My current typical travel setup is rifle (Steyr AUG) and five 28 rd mags (4 in a shoulder bag 1 in the gun ) , pistol and 3 spare mags (2 on me and one spare in the shoulder bag) which gives me generally 140 total rounds of 5.56 and 68 total rounds of 9mm. That is not because I think I'm going to need all that in any particular 5 minute firefight...it is because while I'm out of town something could happen (earthquake, hurricane, civil unrest,terror event, Indian uprising , pestilence, etc) that makes return travel home difficult and I prefer not to be ONLY armed with a pistol if things are "open ended" and I might be living on the road for a few days. So that IS essentially my "end of world" load out in case it happens when I'm away from home. Remember the story about Walt Rauch and the group of famous gun writers trapped at Thunder Ranch the week of 9/11 when air travel was halted and they all to a man were carrying J frames and 1 reload or a SW 3913 and 1 spare mag only? They all had to get rental cars and drive hundreds of miles back home with just their tiny "comfortable to carry sucks balls to fight with" pistols and a handful of spare rounds each. That same week my wife and I were on our honeymoon with 2 pistols, 3 mags for each and an AR with 6 mags. Guess who was not panicking about needing ammo..... but again...that is 5 or 6 rifle mags not 15 or 16.

You can certainly roll like an SF team doing LRRP with 14 mags on you if you want, but you also sacrifice mobility and any look of "normalcy". A slick plate carrier under a pullover and a shoulder bag for your mags will be "overlooked" by many. Or that plate carrier with 3 mags ONLY can be "hidden" under a big jacket . I just can't see very many scenarios where other people seeing your plate carrier would be better than them not seeing it. Stealth is your friend as much or more than armor is if you don't HAVE to confront people. And hitting what you shoot at goes a long way toward mitigating the need for a lot of extra ammo.

Edited to ad..... TGS hit a lot of the same points about stealth while I was still typing out my lengthy post. And edited to "revise and extend" the original remarks.

[einherjarvalk]

TGS hit pretty much every point I was planning to, but he's more qualified to say it than I am.

As a civilian, my plate carrier setup is more for fun than any serious scenario, but I still limit it to 3 AR mags and two pistol mags, with two more handgun mags on my belt and a fourth rifle mag in the gun. My reasoning is that if I ever find myself in a situation where I have my plate carrier on, have my rifle too, and 120+ rounds are not enough to see me through a fight, I'm in much deeper trouble than I'm capable of dealing with and need to get clear of whatever's posing a threat to me as soon as possible.

My plate carrier is also set up with the intention of maximizing modularity. The Ferro Slickster plus a Spiritus Micro Fight chest rig gives me an easily scalable solution; I can run the carrier without pouches under a light jacket or similar, store the chest rig placard in a bag, and snap the placard onto it in seconds after retrieving it. Granted, it's all in Multicam and jacket season lasts all of about 3 months for me, so it's overt as all hell, but it's certainly a lot easier to conceal than most plate carrier setups I see people buying. I'm considering doing an identical setup in Ranger Green or Multicam Black for a more low profile appearance, but using any of it is almost all in the realm of fantasy so it probably doesn't matter.

At the end of the day though, I'd personally take one 30 round AR mag in a belt pouch and a med kit in a backpack over a plate carrier loaded down with enough ammo to fight through Fallujah.

[Dagga Boy]

I found that when you have spent a majority of your life wearing body armor, plate carriers are never just for fun. Two things I hate wearing...armor and a helmet. If I never have to wear that crap again, life is good.

Figure out what your REALISTIC needs are and go from there. I have a feeling if most people spent more time on the ability to run their daily carry concealment pistol at a very high level and actually carry it all the time is a far better investment in time, money and effort than most other stuff.

To answer the OP’s original question, going light is always best if you can. I have been to enough classes with the “train the way you fight” folks wearing a ton of gear they don’t normally live in and the class is a waste of money because they fought gear the entire time rather than learning to run their gun. I like layering. Basic war belt. War belt and armor. War belt, armor, and then a chest rig as needed to support a long gun.

[Hambo]

I found that when you have spent a majority of your life wearing body armor, plate carriers are never just for fun. Two things I hate wearing...armor and a helmet. If I never have to wear that crap again, life is good.

Figure out what your REALISTIC needs are and go from there.

I really, really, do not miss body armor.

As far as threats go, if there was the possibility of needing a plate carrier and rifle tonight, the thinking man would un-ass the area right the fuck now and avoid all that.

[Dagga Boy]

I really, really, do not miss body armor.

As far as threats go, if there was the possibility of needing a plate carrier and rifle tonight, the thinking man would un-ass the area right the fuck now and avoid all that.

Shhhhhh.......your not supposed to give up the secret tactics of the old and treacherous.

[Hambo]

Shhhhhh.......your not supposed to give up the secret tactics of the old and treacherous.

Right. What I meant to say was, kit up and get out there and fight.

So DB and I can slip out the back...

[jnc36rcpd]

While you may end up in a "Dawn of the Dead" scenario, you're more likely to encounter the "average" disaster. If a hurricane or blizzard hits your area, you're more likely to be helping a neighbor move a tree or push a car out of a snow drift than you will be confronting a mob of zombies. You're probably better off with a pistol, a couple of reloads, and soft body armor than you will be kitted up fully. You won't alarm the neighbors nor attract people in my profession.

This is not to say you shouldn't have gear and ammunition if things go sideways, but layering is the better approach.

[TQP]

We recently went from soft armor in external carriers to plate carriers with composite plates on the EMS units. We wear them on violent type runs. They are a pain in the rear to drive in. We actually had to remove the big first aid pouch on the front (We bought someone's RTF kit) because it interfered too much. This is in F550 ambulances, I can't imagine doing it in a Honda.

If your zombie apocalypse plan involves driving kitted out, you may want to take that into account.