Probably out of line?Originally Posted by TCinVA
Did we watch different videos?
I did not know "multiple kicks to the face" was so low on the use of force continuum that they can be used for a passively non-compliant subject.
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+1 zillion.
I'm not in agreement with this viewpoint. To call him a psychopath is nothing but myopic and 20/20 quarterbacking at its worst.
Were the kicks out of line? Yes.
Was there permanent, irreversible damage done? Was he seriously off the hook, like the police officer from Canton, OH?
No.
He responded inappropriately. He's in a job that demands a perfect decision in a lot of imperfect situations using imperfect information. He's probably involved with some sort of violence, aggression, ect on a weekly basis, if not every day. He kicked someone......with measure, with no permanent damage, no threats of killing him, and he was obviously still in control of himself (goes along with how he wasn't responding without measure). He used some harsh language? Tough shit, call the Church of Latter-Day Saints and file a complaint.
That doesn't deserve he lose his job. This attitude of "he screwed up, fire him" is stupid and not productive. He's still an experienced police officer.....he can still learn a lesson, move on, and hopefully pass that information on to others.
I noticed this attitude in the military. At least as an officer, gone are the days where you could screw up out of commission with reversible, non-permanent effects and still make it. Now, the tiniest screw up means you're done. That's it. In the grand scheme of things, this has a deleterious effect on the leadership cadre.....because now instead of having experienced people who have learned lessons, you've got a whole lot of people who are very inexperienced, and haven't even had the chance to make mistakes like some others.
I would hate for this to happen to our law enforcement community. You're not always going to get Captain America at $40k a year, so I'd rather have my cops be a bunch of street-wise guys that have experience that learned from their mistakes, compared to a bunch of guys with no history of mistakes......meaning they basically have no experience. Mistakes come with experience. If you're not making mistakes every once in a while then it either means:
1) You're not doing anything that involves decision making.
2) You (or your boss) are not paying attention to what you're doing.
The dude got out of hand. In this instance, fixing the problem does not involve firing him......it involves remediation and discipline. Calling him a psychopath is really over the top.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
It's quite possible that there is permanent physical damage and you have absolutely no way of knowing that. You're assumption and bias are blatantly obvious and however many excuses you come up with don't change the fact that he kicked a man in the head a half dozen times who was being held down by about 5 other officers. And just to clarify there is permanent irreversible damage to the Henderson Police Dept., it's reputation, and it's officer's reputations here in the Las Vegas area. The incident has been all over the local news and people are disgusted with the officer's actions and the fact that he still remains on their police force. If you don't think that that's permanent, irreversible damage then you're definitely mistaken.
Again, you assume that his kicks were somehow "measured" and there is no permanent damage. If he was in control of himself then why was he kicking some guy in the head multiple times? Telling someone "Quit resisting motherfucker!" while kicking them in the head will have the exact opposite effect. If someone's kicking me in the head it's game time and I don't care who you are. Having had a severe head injury myself a few years ago, due to stopping a swinging baseball bat, I can tell you in fact that many brain injuries due not surface for quite some time and when they do they're often hard to diagnose.He kicked someone......with measure, with no permanent damage, no threats of killing him, and he was obviously still in control of himself (goes along with how he wasn't responding without measure). He used some harsh language? Tough shit, call the Church of Latter-Day Saints and file a complaint.
He can still learn a lesson? You learn not to kick people in the head in grade school. He's a Sergeant for HPD and not some rookie who may actually have limited experience in such matters.That doesn't deserve he lose his job. This attitude of "he screwed up, fire him" is stupid and not productive. He's still an experienced police officer.....he can still learn a lesson, move on, and hopefully pass that information on to others.
Again, you assume you know what you're talking about. Considering the fact that HPD's starting salary is $56k you again prove you don't know what you're talking about. http://www.cityofhenderson.com/police/join_hpd.php And another fact is the Sergeant in question was paid $99k a year for 2009. http://transparentnevada.com/salarie...ett-j-seekatz/You're not always going to get Captain America at $40k a year.
Last edited by Shellback; 02-10-2012 at 08:44 PM. Reason: Clarification.
Case settled: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012...ted-pain-suff/
Ok.
Feel better?
Last edited by TGS; 02-10-2012 at 09:08 PM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Gentlemen, personal attacks on other members will not be tolerated.
Disagree, argue, whatever, but remain polite.
Nobody is impressed by what you can't do. -THJ
Kicks to the head are no bueno unless it's a knock down drag out fight to survive.
The department I worked for had a rep as being rather aggressive with use of force and the policy was as lenient as it could be without giving a middle finger to SCOTUS. The kicks would not have flown for a half second there. The knees would have.
HPD has a bit of a reputation. I'm not surprised.
"I think we ought always to entertain our opinions with some measure of doubt. I shouldn't wish people dogmatically to believe any philosophy, not even mine." - Bertrand Russell
As of yesterday the Chief of Police for HPD announced her resignation due to fall out concerning this incident. The citizens of Las Vegas/Henderson are very sensitive towards police violence after the past couple of years and some very questionable OIS incidents. This incident has done nothing but damage the relationship between the police and the citizens who live here.
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