Diagnostic help: PX4 trigger drag in single action

[Earlymonk]

Just rounding back with word from a factory rep on this. He wrote:

Fairly typical. Ensure that the spring is up and lubricate all contact points. We put a preservative on during assembly that is NOT a lubricant and it can exacerbate contact noises.

So it's an issue some/most of the time. That seems like a design flaw but not a significant one. YMMV.

Maybe installing the LTT TIB would eliminate the rub?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

In live fire I didn't notice it.

The highest round count I got to was a shade under 30k on a single 9mm full size. This issue got a little bit less pronounced versus the newer pistols I had at the time. So there is some 'wear-in' that can mitigate the issue but only about 25%.

The other data point that made me realize it wasn't a huge issue was it persisted across multiple caliber lines and different years. I had 3 9mm full size, 0.40, and 0.45 all from different years and they all did it.

This is excellent feedback! I like reading about high round counts on PX4s.

I have never experienced the sticking trigger symptom on any Storm, including ours, students' and pistols inspected, about 20 or more. I have had a couple that squeaked. I put a drop of oil on the sides of the hammer where it pivots and that fixed that. On my wife's Compact the squeak persists under thumb cocking, probably the hammer pin spring or drag of the sear on the hammer face. @12,300 rounds it works just fine, though.

I read your comment and read what you were answering- to clarify: you're writing about the squeak from the hammer pin spring? Or are you also writing that your Storms had a sticking trigger that moved the trigger bar down, etc., as described in the videos in the thread?

[LangdonTactical]

I have seen this kind of thing with many different guns, not just PX4s or Beretta pistols. I have worked in the industry for many years, and people get a new gun and sit around and pull the trigger really slow, play with the trigger with the slide off of the gun, feel for a listen to every noise that the gun makes. Often, none of this stuff affects function or reliability of the gun, it is just something they found when they were "playing" with their new gun.

I am not denying the fact that some of these issues are annoying, but we may be getting OCD about things on a $450 to $800 handgun that is a "service pistol".

If you want an absolutely perfect handgun, go buy yourself a Wilson Super Grade at about $8,000. Or better yet, you can get Jason Berton to build you a 1911. They start at $12,000 and take about 3 to 4 years to get, but they are absolutely flawless!

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Just rounding back with word from a factory rep on this. He wrote:



So it's an issue some/most of the time. That seems like a design flaw but not a significant one. YMMV.

Maybe installing the LTT TIB would eliminate the rub?

I have dealt with Beretta for years on different levels of service. Sometimes they answer the part they focus on or the part they want to answer. I've learned to ask more after an initial answer. With that in mind, as I read your quote from them, it seems they answered about the squeak. Did they answer about the sticking trigger and dropping trigger bar specifically? Or is my understanding of their answer unclear?

[Earlymonk]

...people get a new gun and sit around and pull the trigger really slow, play with the trigger with the slide off of the gun, feel for a listen to every noise that the gun makes. Often, none of this stuff affects function or reliability of the gun, it is just something they found when they were "playing" with their new gun.

I am not denying the fact that some of these issues are annoying, but we may be getting OCD about things on a $450 to $800 handgun that is a "service pistol".

Really appreciate your weighing in on this, Ernest. Glad to know that this sort of thing is relatively common in your experience--and irrelevant to function or reliability.

My experience is ONLY with service pistols in the lower price range, and I've not run into a "minor internal oddity" like this with Glocks or M&Ps. (And with almost any mechanical device, I'll certainly own up to the "OCD player" profile!)

...it seems they answered about the squeak. Did they answer about the sticking trigger and dropping trigger bar specifically?

No, not specifically. I take the reply to mean that the symptoms in their totality are "fairly typical."

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I have seen this kind of thing with many different guns, not just PX4s or Beretta pistols. I have worked in the industry for many years, and people get a new gun and sit around and pull the trigger really slow, play with the trigger with the slide off of the gun, feel for a listen to every noise that the gun makes. Often, none of this stuff affects function or reliability of the gun, it is just something they found when they were "playing" with their new gun.

I am not denying the fact that some of these issues are annoying, but we may be getting OCD about things on a $450 to $800 handgun that is a "service pistol".

If you want an absolutely perfect handgun, go buy yourself a Wilson Super Grade at about $8,000. Or better yet, you can get Jason Berton to build you a 1911. They start at $12,000 and take about 3 to 4 years to get, but they are absolutely flawless!

Ernest, It appears that you are saying that little squeaks and rubs are acceptable in an inexpensive service pistol. Ok... But are you only addressing the squeaking here or are you also saying that if the trigger does not go all the way forward and you must put your finger behind it and help it go forward.. that that is acceptable?

[LangdonTactical]

Ernest, It appears that you are saying that little squeaks and rubs are acceptable in an inexpensive service pistol. Ok... But are you only addressing the squeaking here or are you also saying that if the trigger does not go all the way forward and you must put your finger behind it and help it go forward.. that that is acceptable?

I am not saying either really. I agree that a squeaking in the trigger is annoying, and he may have a real issue here, I really don't know without seeing the gun.

But, if you are pulling the trigger in a manner in which the gun was not meant to function, then weird things can happen. Guns will do all kinds of weird things if you try to make them do it. For example, I have heard the "when cycling the slide by hand and let the slide go forward really slowly, sometimes it does not go all the way into battery".

Again, I am not saying he does not have an issue. But it seems to not be an issue when he is shooting the gun, or when cycling the slide hard or when shooting at speed, so....? It also looks like he has to release the trigger pretty slowly to get it to "stick".

None of my guns do this, I have tried all of them. I will give it a shot on a new batch of full-size PX4s when I get them.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I am not saying either really. I agree that a squeaking in the trigger is annoying, and he may have a real issue here, I really don't know without seeing the gun.

But, if you are pulling the trigger in a manner in which the gun was not meant to function, then weird things can happen. Guns will do all kinds of weird things if you try to make them do it. For example, I have heard the "when cycling the slide by hand and let the slide go forward really slowly, sometimes it does not go all the way into battery".

Again, I am not saying he does not have an issue. But it seems to not be an issue when he is shooting the gun, or when cycling the slide hard or when shooting at speed, so....? It also looks like he has to release the trigger pretty slowly to get it to "stick".

None of my guns do this, I have tried all of them. I will give it a shot on a new batch of full-size PX4s when I get them.

A very clear explanation, thanks. I fully agree.

It is also reassuring that when getting a PX4 from LTT you get the added layer of safety and function inspection.

[LangdonTactical]

It does look and sound like your hammer pin spring is rubbing on the trigger bar. But none of the videos show a view down into the frame in that area.

I have seen similar issues on guns where someone detail stripped the gun and bent that spring causing it to rub the trigger bar.

So if it has never been detail stripped, I don't know what is going on there without seeing the gun.

[Earlymonk]

But, if you are pulling the trigger in a manner in which the gun was not meant to function, then weird things can happen.

Wasn't doing anything terribly odd when I discovered it; in fact, the initial "grating" in the SA was pretty apparent, compared to anything else I've shot. It was only after feeling that fingers-on-a-chalkboard sensation at the beginning of the take-up that I started looking more closely.

Again, I am not saying he does not have an issue. But it seems to not be an issue when he is shooting the gun, or when cycling the slide hard or when shooting at speed, so....?

To be clear, the gun has not been shot yet. I've got a class this weekend (and a backup gun!) and will report back.

It does look and sound like your hammer pin spring is rubbing on the trigger bar.

Pretty sure this is the situation. I'm getting the sense that it's maybe not supposed to!

I have seen similar issues on guns where someone detail stripped the gun and bent that spring causing it to rub the trigger bar.
So if it has never been detail stripped, I don't know what is going on there without seeing the gun.

Gun has never been detail stripped. It exhibited this behavior as soon as it came out of the box. I'm thinking it may be making a trip to Gilbert, AZ soon...