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Thread: Help Picking Out First Pistol

  1. #21
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    You've gotten a lot of good advice in this thread. I'm going to try not to repeat any of it.

    First off, you say that you haven't taken your CCW class yet. There are CCW classes and there are CCW classes. Try to find something that's a little more than a generic CCW class. My first time I went through, it was taught by a lawyer who at the time was prosecuting for one of the villages in the area as well as private practice. The second time was more-or-less this class (Ohio has since gone from 12 hours to 8). They didn't want you bringing your own gun, they provided everything. We shot everything listed at the link PLUS high end 1911s from the range owner's collection. Made me want to go right into the store and buy one, which may have been the point. That was a REALLY sweet Wilson... Point being that the right CCW class ( or NRA basic class) can allow you to shoot some different guns before you commit to one.

    Second, logistics. If you're going to shoot a lot, or rely on the gun, you're going to need access to spares, mags, and holsters. The nice thing about Glock being ubiquitous is that Glock armorers are everywhere, and it's easy to get troubleshooting help. The flip side of that is that a guy I know has been waiting 2 months for a holster for his 'gun hipster'( (c)Tam, all rights reserved) gun. Not because he's buying a high-end custom for it, but because he couldn't find an off-the-shelf holster for the thing.

    I don't recall seeing anyone recommending Ruger in this thread, and I wouldn't either just based on how they are about parts/repairs.

    Sorry how long winded I got there...
    Last edited by TQP; 04-11-2018 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Forgot the point of the 1st point
    'Nobody ever called the fire department because they did something intelligent'

  2. #22
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKHolley View Post
    Thanks guys, and thank you RevolveRob and Vcdgrips. Which ever gun I decide on, I will definitely follow your guy's advice. I plan on taking a carry conceal class at a gun shop down the street from me.

    My plan for the gun is carrying and home defense. I've just never found glocks appealing. Alot of people have told me that glocks are not that accurate aswell but I don't know from personal experience.

    The STEYR seemed interesting because of the angle of the grip. Seems to have a very low bore axis, so less muzzle flip. The SIG has the highest bore axis but the slide is heavier which absorbs some of the recoil. I think i have it narrowed down to these 2 guns.
    So you want a pistol to defend your life and, likely, the lives of those important to you. That's not the time to be a hipster and pick something based on being different. If you want a cool kid BBQ gun for show and tell or social events, that's your third pistol. Your first two should, ideally, be two duplicate or near duplicate pistols. One, you shoot enough to vet and it becomes your carry pistol. The other is your training/dry fire/takes the wear and abuse pistol. What's important to a life saving tool and what's important to show and tell are different, make the decision which you are REALLY interested in now.

    The people who told you Glock pistols aren't accurate are ignorant and probably aren't very good shooters. If you can't make torso shots with a Glock at 100y, it's you, not the gun. The Gen 5 in particular is quite accurate, good examples run sub 1" groups at 25y from a rest.

    Grip angle and the differences are angels on a pinhead, and bore axis is largely bullshit. Grip diameter and reach to trigger, those are real concerns. If you have average size hands, it's not a big deal, but if you can palm a watermelon or you buy gloves in the kids' section, you'll need more specialized advise. You want a trigger you can comfortably reach with your hand on the grip so the gun points naturally (called "indexing") so if you have to twist your wrist around to get to the trigger or to avoid too much finger shoved in the trigger guard, that's something to know before buying.

    Support gear availability and cost is also important for a carry gun. Popular guns have more aftermarket sights, more holster options and, generally, cheaper and more readily available magazines. If you want to stockpile magazines (you do) $20 Beretta mags vs $45 H&K mags may matter to you. Ease of maintenance and availability of repair parts matters. Glock and Sig armorers and parts are widely available. Is the same true for Brand X? If it takes a shit on you, what are your options? Do you have to send it to Brazil and 4 months later it's back and fixed? Or can you get a part shipped to you and be back up and running in a few days?

    So, for striker fired:
    Glock 9mm, whatever size fits your needs
    S&W M&P


    TDA:
    Sig (P226 and P229 in 9mm)
    Beretta 92 variants

    There are other solid manufacturers that make a good product, but each has quirks, costs, etc. that make them better suited for once you know more and know what you really want and value. CZ, H&K, etc.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  3. #23
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Speaking from the standpoint as one who has certainly gone around the world with the outlier pistol concept, you're getting some excellent advice from vcdgrips and others.

    While the Steyr in its current incarnation might be viable, participants on the forum (including myself personally, based on a previous M40) have seen it wise to cast a somewhat skeptical eye on anything designed by Willi Bubits-especially given vetted and viable competitors such as Glock and HK.

    While the Sigpro 2022 is a good gun (and as I've said recently here on the forum, literally the only contemporary SIG-Sauer pistol that I'd feel comfortable in recommending), if you want a DA/SA hammer-fired pistol, an HK P30, P2000 or USP is an echelon higher in the food chain, and with the recent HK P30 price reductions, simply not much more expensive.

    Beretta 92s are excellent choices, and significantly revitalized by recent attention given by Bill Wilson and Ernest Langdon. An excellent value (and pistol starting point) would be a Langdon M9, available only from Buds Guns. Eventually you can upgrade it with Langdon's Trigger Job In A Bag, but it's certainly "good to go" as they come out of the box.

    Basically, assuming you pick a fundamentally sound and reasonably ergonomic platform, it's less about the specific gun/hardware than it is about training and practice/software-as vcdgrips has suggested. Yes, being a hipster might have some momentary attraction, but for solid, sustainable benefits and growth, better to go with something more established, wrung out, vetted and where there's already a significant knowledge base available. Despite your averred dismissal of Glocks, you really might want to take a hard look at, say, a 19X or a Gen5 G17. Just sayin'....

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 04-11-2018 at 05:08 PM.

  4. #24
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    i shoot IDPA matches each month, and see all kinds of different pistols that people have. some are better than others, but that's a function of talent, not pistol choice.

    i'd suggest trying out various models, go to a local match and observe and ask questions (why did you pick that pistol for the match, is it the same as the one you carry daily, why), and after the match, maybe if you ask nicely, some will let you shoot theirs for a few shots so you can get a feel for them.

    if you asked me nicely, i'd let you shoot a few rounds from whatever i was shooting that day. maybe show up with a box or two of quality brass cased factory ammo (others will be hesitant to have you run handloads thru their guns) so you don't run thru ammo supplies of others.

  5. #25
    Member Earlymonk's Avatar
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    Welcome, JK.

    You've gotten a TON of excellent advice so far.

    Keep in mind that the P-F niche in the VAST "gunternet" is really the 1%. There are a few dopes like me, but many members here are extremely squared away folks who a) shoot orders of magnitude more annual rounds than the typical gun owner, b) seek training on a consistent basis and c) are industry leaders in instruction, gunsmithing, equipment design and innovation, etc. In short, you've asked the right people.

    For an audience like that, most of the guns on your admittedly iconoclastic list are non-starters as hard use weapons. Likely, only the APX and the 2022 are in the running for most. (OTOH, if you just want a range toy, buy whatever tickles your fancy.) As pointed out, these two are significantly different, not the least of which is the striker-fired vs. double action/single action distinction.

    But ultimately, regardless of the expertise of the forum denizens, NO ONE CAN TELL WHAT IS THE BEST GUN FOR YOU VIA THE INTERNET. (Sorry to shout.) They can help you narrow it down, and then you have to do your own homework from there. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of at least handling the possibilities and seeing how they fit you personally. If you can rent & shoot them, even better.

    That said, I'll make an argument for one gun from your (slightly oddball) list. My recommendation for the BEST VALUE RIGHT NOW of what you posted is the relatively unproven APX, provided you avoid Prvi Partizan 124 NATO and are comfortable with the risks of being an "early adopter." (For my hands, the 2022 is a big clunky brick of a thing. YMMV.)

    Beretta is running a deal where you get 5 extra mags (7 total) with the purchase of an APX before April 30th. http://promo.beretta.com/2018-apx-promo
    I see a dealer selling the pistol for $399. (I can forward a link via PM if you'd like.) Also, the modularity of this design will allow you to put the serialized chassis into other frame and slide sizes (as they become available).

    On the other hand, listening to the experts here and expanding your list will open up some better options.
    Last edited by Earlymonk; 04-11-2018 at 05:41 PM.

  6. #26
    Site Supporter PearTree's Avatar
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    Welcome to pf first off. Reading your OP and replies you seem pretty set on not wanting a Glock or mp which is your choice.
    Given the list of pistols provided the only one that's even close to the vicinity of a Glock in reliability or testing is the 509. It's still a very new gun but has passed .gov tests and did pretty well in the mhs so I'm told. The rest need to be removed from consideration. Just my .2 cents

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  7. #27
    Ok OK OK, so I looked at the M&P 2.0 again since it was recommended as much as the glock on here and it's striker fired. Which from what you guys have said is probably more beginner friendly. It was one of the first guns I looked at when I started searching weeks ago and I don't remember what turned me away from it other then the reviews that said the trigger was gritty. I don't really even know what that means. But I like what I'm reading about it.

    Now the only question is... Is it still worth getting it over the apx which is throwing in 4 free mags right now?

    I'm not a hipster by the way, I'm 31, have 2 kids, one on the way and work Atleast 20 hours over time a week. I don't have time to be a hipster, lol. The only people that will ever see the gun are people at the range, someone breaking in my home or someone trying to hurt my family.

    Thanks again for all the replies, plz keep the info coming. The BERETTA 92 was my very first choice by the way but I went to the shop and held and it felt like it was to big to carry everyday. That's what started my search...

  8. #28
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    @JKHolley

    You are on the best forum on the net, gun or otherwise. The wealth of firearms wisdom here is strong, and the risk of being given truly bad firearms advice is close to zero. So enjoy reading what everyone has to say, and don't let the choices overwhelm you. Pick something, then train and practice and buy good gear. Even if it's not your dream set up you will be better off than the majority of gun owners in less than year.

    I am not among the firearms wise. My wisdom is related solely to Mexican food and diet soda.
    Last edited by TheNewbie; 04-11-2018 at 06:22 PM.

  9. #29
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    Santa Fe, NM
    as far as the 92, you can change the grips to thinner G10 grips by VZ grips if the stock plastic or wood grips are too big for you.

    a case (1000 rounds) of decent 9mm ammo will run about $225-250 out the door. so in a very short time, you'll have spent more on ammo than on the pistol. so get a quality pistol that fits you well, that has a decent trigger. after that, go shoot it and practice.

  10. #30
    Hammertime
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    I will just point out that at the recent Rangermaster conference match, which attracts a large amount of very squared away instructors the guns shot by them were:

    Glock 70.5%
    M&P 23.2%
    1911 4.4%
    Other 1.9% (Beretta, SIG, HK, CZ)

    I personally love the Steyr, but you are definitely in the right track for a practical use gun with the M&P.

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