Thoughts on LEO Rules of Engagement

[HCM]

It never gets discussed, but the best way to not get shot by the police is:

- Don’t do criminal stuff
- If you do criminal stuff, don’t resist arrest
- If you resist arrest, don’t have a gun or act in a manner that a reasonable period might think you have a gun.

I’m trying to think of any recent police shootings that gathered media attention that would have happened if the shootee had just followed these rules. None come to mind.....

The media NEVER discusses the contribution of the shootee in these cases.

Here is a start : https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesma...06i6tB_kXAx8w/

The media lies all the time -for example they regularly refer to Alton Sterling as "unarmed" when, in fact he had a loaded gun in his pocket and was trying to access it when he was shot.

[TSH]

I think we will see changes in tactics that may reduce the number of possibly armed and likely violent suspects being shot. For instance, in the Sacramento cases, officers could have called for containment and hoped for the best. Once containment was established, officers could await arrival of a SWAT team armed with the usual array of lethal and less-lethal weapons. If the officers kept far enough away, they would more likely have cover and shooting a person armed with a gun or cell phone would be less likely. If the subject approaches, the officer may be able to back further away. Of course, this is going to take some time, people will want to go or leave home/ Refusing them permission will result in complaint, arrests. and possible use of force. If people really want t enter or leave the area, I guess we should let them. If things work out, hopefully the suspect will escape and no problems.

Of course, this plan may put people like the octogenarian whose home the suspect burglarized at some risk, but we all need to contribute to the effort to avoid using force upon suspect.

Consider, for instance, the case in an park in Albuquerque several years. An urban outdoorsman had taken up residence and threatened various people. APD officers, including a gang unit with tactical capabilities, spent hours attempting to negotiate a peaceful resolution. When the arrest plan went sideways and the suspect shot to death, two officers were prosecuted for homicide.

Was allowing public access to the park that important? Perhaps APD could have simply backed off and closed the park. After all, there are plenty of other parks that people could visit instead of this park. If the guy really doesn't decide to surrender, why risk use of force? Of course, some people may want to use this park and we don't want to risk upset (nor arrests or use of force). I guess we could just warn them to reduce liability. We just post signs than an armed, mentally ill offender is loose in the park. If asked why we're not doing something about it, we respond that we don't want to risk injuring or killed the armed suspect. There's another park across town, why don't you Google it? It's only a half hour away.

As has been remarked, communities get the policing they deserve.

You are completely out of touch with what policing entails.

ETA: On the other hand, perhaps that’s the world you want. I’m happy to give it to you, I get paid the same either way.

[Lon]

You are completely out of touch with what policing entails.

ETA: On the other hand, perhaps that’s the world you want. I’m happy to give it to you, I get paid the same either way.

I seriously hope he wrote that tongue in cheek sarcasm. At least that’s the way I decided to interpret it.

[blues]

I seriously hope he wrote that tongue in cheek sarcasm. At least that’s the way I decided to interpret it.

That's the way I took it. I guess we're both knuckleheads if we read him wrong.

[Lon]

That's the way I took it. I guess we're both knuckleheads if we read him wrong.

According to my wife I already fit the knucklehead label.

[TC215]

Just to be clear I never suggested that we police like those guys in the UK or Norway. What I did suggest was that there may be some tactics we can learn from them that help LEOs do their jobs but with less likelihood of lethal encounters when the situation allows it. Or are you suggesting that there is nothing to be learned from them? I would expect our law enforcement leadership to always be looking for better ways to do things or is that not the case?


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Maybe they'll teach us this one first:

[blues]

^^^^ I don't know if that's the norm these days...but I have to say the detectives I had the privilege of knowing and working alongside from the Metropolitan Police, (both stateside and in London), were not the kind to run from a fight...armed or not. Obviously a small sample size but nonetheless...

[Erick Gelhaus]

More later, but for now ... domestic law enforcement does not have Rules of Engagement. In the U.S., cops of all types work under Constitutional parameters as it relates to the use of force. One federal agency tried ROE in the mid 90s, that didn't work out terribly well.

David French is very far outside of his lane.

[TheNewbie]

I seriously hope he wrote that tongue in cheek sarcasm. At least that’s the way I decided to interpret it.

Yes I think it was sarcasm . Very well done because it makes you wonder at first if it's real.

[Lon]

I read the articles. Short version: he’s a fucking moron. Way out of his lane.

We need to do a better job of educating the public with the truth about use of force. But we don’t control the media so it’s harder for us to do that mass media style.