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Thread: Thoughts on LEO Rules of Engagement

  1. #101
    gulag bound blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    It is more from dealing with this crap on Facebook a lot...

    End of side rant...
    There's a cure for that...don't go there. The rest of it...I hear ya brother.


    ETA: Gadfly, I just created a screw facebook support group just for you and others in your situation.
    Last edited by blues; 04-12-2018 at 03:08 PM.
    Every day I convince myself that I can't be more disgusted by what I see our country willingly turning itself into...
    ...and then wake up the next morning only to find just how wrong I was...day after day.

  2. #102
    Lives to Enable Revolvers Stephanie B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSP552 View Post
    Yep, the only reason LA went to .08 and 21 to drink was to keep Federal highway construction funds.
    If my memory is correct, it was the same deal with the highway speed limits and some other things. South Dakota sued on the drinking age and lost.
    There's trouble on the streets tonight, I can feel it in my bones.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    The core of the problem is that we ARE now attempting to legislatively change how LE interacts with crime infested neighborhoods, in order to make being a criminal safer for members of favored demographic groups and subcultures. This is the inevitable outgrowth of intersectional identity politics. Changing the law regarding use of force, in order to avoid injuring criminals, because social policies are resulting in too many criminals, is not a recipe for success. In fact, it will worsen the very problem you seek to fix.

    The crime subculture in some minority neighborhoods is toxic, and negatively affects everyone there. The various reasons and justifications used to explain why it doesn't change, don't change that fact. Asking the rest of society to change it's laws and rules to accommodate that? Again, not a recipe for any kind of success...and again, shifts responsibility for the criminal behavior away from perpetrators onto society at large. Perhaps you subscribe to that viewpoint. I don't, and neither does the history of Western law and philosophy.

    In summary, if you think that changing use of force law to restrict LE in order to make it safer for people to resist arrest because some communities have developed a subculture that rejects abiding by the law is a good idea, good luck. Maybe I'm wrong, and unicorns will save us.
    Bravo. Excellent response to someone who has no LEO experience who tries to lecture people with decades of experience as cops.

  4. #104
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    Living across the Golden Bridge , and through the rainbow tunnel, somewhere north of fantasyland.
    I'm not trying to shut down discussion, or questions, or even legitimate scepticism of LE policies. There is a lot of ignorance out there, though...about the law regarding use of force, police policies, training, and what works in the real world. Worse, there's a lot of 'miseducation' of the public by television and movies. Occasionally, well meaning members of the public with legitimate concerns will present ideas for how to improve LE. I don't want to shut people down from learning and being involved....but remember you're not the professional. We do this for a living, some of us for a long time. We do know what we're doing.....it would be nice if the public would listen to us about these issues, instead of activists, politicians, and PERF.

  5. #105
    Good luck with that AMC.
    Those people couldn't care less what you, I or anyone else thinks about any of this. The law doesn't matter to them. Their concern is the safety or rights of that subculture you mentioned. Nothing else. You, I or any other Officer are nothing more than collateral damage to them.

  6. #106
    An older gentleman dropped by the office one day to discuss a matter. He was misinformed on the actual legalities of the situation. I explained what the law actually was and that his fears were unfounded.

    He didn't believe me and claimed that his status as being my elder proved him correct.

    So I asked, "Sir, what do you do for a living?" His response was that he was financial planner.

    I asked, "Do you have education and experience in that field?" He replied that he had an appropriate degree and several decades of experience.

    I followed up with, "I have neither a degree or experience in financial planning. What would you think if I started telling you how to do financial planning?"

    His response, "I'd think you were a fool."

    Me: "Sir, how much education and experience to you have in law enforcement?

    Him: "None. Are you calling me a fool?"

    Me: "No sir, but I believe you did."
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  7. #107
    Very good jlw. I've said the same thing for years. I don't tell my plumber how to plumb, my doctor how to be a doctor. When I need legal advice I see a lawyer, when I fly I don't tell the pilot how to fly the airplane. Don't tell me how to be the Police except in those incidents in which the Officer screwed up so badly that even Helen Keller could see that he/she was wrong. But then again I didn't need you to tell me how badly he/she screwed up. I already knew they did.

  8. #108
    Member Gadfly's Avatar
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    Second side rant:

    This is the Ring Master for the local protest circus. He never misses a chance to bash any use of force in Houston.
    So when he actually agreed to do this FOF training, I was shocked. And boy, was he quick to shoot sometimes, and he shot to slide lock.

    In the end, he admitted that people need to just comply with the officer. He admitted that he did not know what he didn't know about use of force. But after about 6 months, he remembered how he pays the bills and went back to being a paid protester.

    Most of you have seen this type of video 100X, but this is still my favorite, because the participant has been such vocal critic in my neck of the woods.

    A gun is a tool, Marian; no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that. - Shane

  9. #109
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post
    Watch 'The Wire" from HBO, its on Netflix. It gives a great insight into numbers juggling in a fictional Baltimore.
    My contacts in Baltimore tell me it is worse than the wire in B'more.
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddy View Post
    Good luck with that AMC.
    Those people couldn't care less what you, I or anyone else thinks about any of this. The law doesn't matter to them. Their concern is the safety or rights of that subculture you mentioned. Nothing else. You, I or any other Officer are nothing more than collateral damage to them.
    The people you're referring to are the committed activists. The folks with a political agenda who actually care nothing about public safety, and who see rising crime and chaos as political opportunity for them, so they promote it at all costs. Then there are the ethnic grievance mongers, who also see opportunity, but for slightly different reasons. Much of the public is simply ignorant or misinformed. Those are the ones it's possible to reach. At least some of them. Unless they're the jackasses jlw referred to, who just think they know everything.

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