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Thread: House Rifle Ballistics

  1. #1
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    House Rifle Ballistics

    I have listened to the P&S Terminal Ballistics discussion, and others related to issues of using a rifle for home protection. Setting aside that I will have a pistol as a secondary gun, what is the best option for a rifle in the home?

    1) 223Rem AR pistol in a 10.5" barrel format with a suppressor running Speer Gold Dot LE ammo;

    2) Pistol Caliber Carbine in a 16" barrel and 9mm format running 124gr Federal HydraShok (Would +P help much?);

    3) 300 AAC Blackout AR pistol in a 16" barrel with a linear comp running subsonic or supersonic high quality hollow points;

    The ear-shattering sound inside a house can cause serious damage to hearing. The high speeds of the 223 and supersonic 300 may cause worse over-penetration. I have all three of these formats available.

    This is how I see it:

    A rifle is still much more accurate than my pistol, especially at longer distances, so there is a huge advantage to any of these three options.

    Obviously the 223Rem and 300 AAC would provide the best terminal ballistics but I pay the price of ear-shattering noise and possible over-penetration issues.

    I am leaning towards my MPX in 9mm with a 30 round mag and 124gr Hydrashok's (mainly because I already own a bunch of it). It keeps the sound to a reasonable level without a suppressor, and very reasonable with a suppressor. Perhaps I could increase terminal velocity with G2 ammo or some +p HP ammo, but my sense is that will only make a marginal difference.

    I see the main advantage is accuracy at distance and a 30 round mag should get the job done. If not, I have a reload. Then, the question is do I really need to put a suppressor on it?

    Or, should I really focus on a 223Rem solution with a suppressor?

    I don't want to start a religious discussion here. I am interested in hearing from anyone who has real-world experience with PCC or gel-tests across these three.

    Thanks in advance.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

  2. #2
    The 5.56 tends to have less penetration than pistol calibers based on the data and tests I have seen.

  3. #3
    How about an eight .300 BLK AR pistol with a brace?
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  4. #4
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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  5. #5
    King of Craft Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    I use a 11.5” 5.56 suppressed SBR with Hornady TAP SBR.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I use a 11.5” 5.56 suppressed SBR with Hornady TAP SBR.
    For a suppressed 5.56 an 11.5” or 12.5” is > a 10.5” from a reliability stand point.

    Do you shoot 300 BO for anything else ? If not 5.56.

    If you aren’t running a short barrel and / or suppressor why bother with 300 BO ?

    Re: penetration -Listen to Doc GKR on the podcast again.

    5.56 defensive loads generally have less pentration in building materials than pistol calibers.

    The MPX is a fine gun but 9mm will penetrate more than 5.56.

    As someone with hearing loss and tinnitus I have no issues articulating the “why” of a suppresssor.
    Last edited by HCM; 03-30-2018 at 11:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    11.5-12.5" 5.56 mm w/suppressor is the best option; if no suppressor is available, then a 16" 5.56 mm--put some Sordins next to your rifle.

    .300 BO is going to penetrate much deeper.

    .300 subsonic is not ideal for defensive use, neither are pistol caliber carbines.

    12 ga #1 buckshot works, as does good quality expanding M1 carbine ammo.
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  8. #8
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    I have a Winchester Model 70, lefty action, .375 H&H, that should do pretty well for wrecking a house, and anyone inside inside the house, who happens to be in the bullets’ paths. I should still have at least one box of Sledgehammer Solids, from the days when we still thought seriously of doing a walk-about in Very Large Mammal habitat.

    Well, what should one expect, posting this in General Discussion?

    I have to question the utility of AR pistols and pistol-cartridge carbines. Why not use an AR15 rifle?

    I have to question the “house” part, too. What if the fight starts inside the house, but moves outside the house? I may well WANT to take the fight outside; I can think of several reasons why I would do this, some of which are specific to the lay-outs and structural components of our primary home, and a secondary location in a wooded area. When seen as an inside/outside fight, I would rather not have an AR pistol, and any pistol-cartridge carbine had best be built to some very serious specifications.

    E.T.A.: Largely due to being very comfortable with the platform, after carrying them on duty, for three-plus decades, I am quite OK with shotguns. A Benelli M2 is my current long gun for bumps in the night, after serving as my duty long gun for the final year of my LEO-ing. I have an AR15, and may shift to it, after I train-up, but that will have to wait until I rehab an injury. (I was in a patrol rifle program for a few years, so am familiar with the AR, but my knees and eyes aged-out of the necessary physical demands of the timed qual, and my skills have become rusty.)
    Last edited by Rex G; 03-31-2018 at 09:58 AM.

  9. #9
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    I know DocGKR has the best information. I recently SBR'd a SIG MPX 9mm pistol. Using Cmore rail mounted RDS. I recently got an AAC Tirant 9mm out of jail. Bought a 4.5 inch MPX barrel. Sig MPX SBR with 4.5 inch barrel and AAC Titrant suppressor is very nice. Manual of arms similar to ARs that I carried for decades. It is amazing how fast you can run the suppressed PCC through a IDPA/UPSA style course of fire. I have run hot 115s, normal 124s, and subsonic 147s - so far the MPX has eaten everything. Need to add a light. The suppressed PCC may have more penetration but is sure is handy and quick handling especially for MOUT. I am skipping the 300 BO because if have this SIG MPX rig.

  10. #10
    Member cclaxton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    Well, what should one expect, posting this in General Discussion?

    I have to question the utility of AR pistols and pistol-cartridge carbines. Why not use an AR15 rifle?

    I have to question the “house” part, too. What if the fight starts inside the house, but moves outside the house? I may well WANT to take the fight outside; I can think of several reasons why I would do this, some of which are specific to the lay-outs and structural components of our primary home, and a secondary location in a wooded area. When seen as an inside/outside fight, I would rather not have an AR pistol, and any pistol-cartridge carbine had best be built to some very serious specifications.

    E.T.A.: Largely due to being very comfortable with the platform, after carrying them on duty, for three-plus decades, I am quite OK with shotguns.
    I picked the general forum since it really wasn't tactics, nor was it long gun specific. I almost posted in ammunition.
    I live in a suburban townhouse. Will soon live in Single Family Home but in suburb. Thus the in-home question. Although I can shoot the AR Pistol and MPX just as well at 50 yards. Anything beyond 50 is not likely defensive IMHO. I was hitting a 3in plate at 50 yards with my 10.5in AR pistol 90% of the time. That seems good enough to me. A full-sized AR Carbine is kinda big to be pieing corners in a smaller home. I like the smaller and shorter size of the AR pistol.
    As for the shotgun, just not accurate enough for me.
    Cody
    That a well-regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state;

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