P30LS with Lazy Wolf Hammer-Fired Master Reduced Reset Action Package

[Sensei]

I love the HKs for their over-engineering, durability, reliability, and accuracy. However, I struggle with their triggers which causes me to underperform on most drills compared to other DA/SA platforms such as the Sig P-series or Beretta 92. It’s not just the HK’s heavy DA weight that gives me problems, but the other characteristics such as the loooong reset and manner in which the DA weight “stacks” in some HKs (especially my HK45c) throughout the pull so that the heaviest point is right before the break. To address much of these issues, I began carrying my USPs and HK45s in Condition 1 (hammer back / safety on with a round in the chamber).

As a spinoff of my new fascination with 9mm 1911s, I purchased a P30LS back in the late summer with the idea of it becoming a Condition 1 EDC gun in a JM OWB-2 holster with a full shield to cover the safety. I’m always paranoid about safeties in SA guns being inadvertently deactivated by my man-rolls, hence the full sweat shield which slows down my grip and draw just a hair. Despite the lighter trigger from the gun being carried in Condition 1, I still struggled to match my FAST Drill times with Glocks, 1911s, and even DA/SA guns like my Berettas and Sigs. I attributed this to the long reset and pre-travel compared to these other platforms.

After scouring the internet, I decided to send the gun of to Lazy Wolf Guns for their Hammer-Fired Master Reduced Reset Action Package. My specific goal for this gun was a significant reduction in reset and the proprietor, Rick Holm, has the reputation as the best non-factory HK pistolsmith in the market. The base cost was $355 but I decided to add-in nickel refinishing to my internal steel parts for another $65. By the time I added in shipping and insurance, the total cost approached $600.

The gun came back yesterday, and I’ve had a chance to dry fire it a bunch and compare it to my stock P30. Basically, the pull weights have stayed roughly the same on the P30LS at 9/4 lbs. These are almost identical to my stock P30 that measures 9.5/4.5 lbs and the weights of the two guns are almost indistinguishable during dry fire practice. Again, my purpose was not to significantly reduce the DA or SA weights, so this was very reasonable to me. The quality of the tigger pull in the P30LS was a bit smoother - across the entire DA trigger pull the P30LS had less clicks and grit compared to the P30. Rick’s trigger job reduced the P30LS’ reset by about 1/3 - noticeable but still slightly longer than my Beretta with a Langdon Tactical Trigger Job in a Bag and still much longer than my SRT-equipped Sigs. The character of the reset in the P30LS is now a little less distinct than the factory reset in the stock P30, but this is only noticeable if you dry fire the guns back to back. Tomorrow, I will begin to test for function and this weekend run some back to back FAST Drills against my stock P30 and USP9. I'll update the thread with how those range sessions go.

Finally, this last paragraph is being written without passion or prejudice - its just the facts. I’m including it so that others can make the most informed decision about wether this action tune is right for them. I mailed this gun off in mid-October and received Rick’s acknowledgement that the gun was received on 10/17/17. At the time, his website and Facebook page were estimating 9-12 weeks for the work that I had purchased. Right before Christmas, I email Rick to get an update since we were approaching the 10-week mark. His prompt reply was that my pistol was scheduled to hit the shop in 3-4 weeks. Right around that time, his website updated the estimated turnaround to 12-15 weeks. Six weeks passed by, so I emailed him again on 2/7/18 to get an update. He promptly replied that the pistol was in-process and would be completed the next week. A few days later, I received the invoice for the work and immediately paid, but still no word on shipping. Several more emails were sent between Feb 23 and March 15th because I had paid but not received a shipping confirmation. There were also 2 phone calls during which Rick was polite but firm that his advertised turnarounds were only estimates, that his work was not something that could be rushed, and that he would probably start on my pistol that week. I did not mention in these calls that his previous emails from a month ago had stated that the work was being done, but it was certainly in the back of my head. Again, take from my experience what you will as this is not a complaint but a mere description of facts. If you are a stickler for “deadlines” then you may need to relax your standards to have a pleasant wait. On the other hand, if you are like me and have multiple P30s, well...

[EVP]

Thanks for the report please keep us updated with the results.


I personally can shoot Glocks slightly faster but not in anyway that is really meaningful. Running the p30s exclusively and learning their nuances has closed the gap even more. Like you I have really come to prefer Hks reliability,durability and accuracy.


I am interested in seeing the results of your testing between the two p30s.

[HCM]

Re: the deadlines, it is LAZY Wolf Guns ;-)

[GJM]

I have an expensive trigger job on one HK DA/SA, and could hardly distinguish it from the same gun with just a 12 pound hammer spring installed.

My pair of P30L DA/SA pistols with only the BCL mods are very shootable at almost no extra cost. When a new P30L can be bought for $550 from CDNN this week, that amount for a trigger job seems disproportionate.

[Balisong]

Thanks for the update and info Sensei. You referred to your FAST times and such comparing the P30s cocked and locked vs Beretta and Sig and 1911, but you never mentioned how the HK45 and USPs did in the same comparison. I'm curious about your experiences there since those guns have generally better triggers/resets than the P30

[Sensei]

I have an expensive trigger job on one HK DA/SA, and could hardly distinguish it from the same gun with just a 12 pound hammer spring installed.

My pair of P30L DA/SA pistols with only the BCL mods are very shootable at almost no extra cost. When a new P30L can be bought for $550 from CDNN this week, that amount for a trigger job seems disproportionate.

I definitely agree on the disproportionate cost given the current buyer's market for the P30; the 2-way overnight shipping to OR is a bitch.

Otherwise, I think that Rick's work mostly centers around trigger reset. Very little changes in terms of the weight of the trigger pull. My research on the topic led me to believe that Rick's shop was the only game in town that could meaningfully reduce the reset without compromising 100% reliability. Now, we can debate as to wether a 30-40% reduction in reset is meaningful in the face of $600 of fees and shipping, but I'm not prepared to have that debate until after I've got 1,000 rounds or so behind the gun in comparison with my stock P30.


BTW, what are you specifically referring to when you say BCL mods?

[Sensei]

Thanks for the update and info Sensei. You referred to your FAST times and such comparing the P30s cocked and locked vs Beretta and Sig and 1911, but you never mentioned how the HK45 and USPs did in the same comparison. I'm curious about your experiences there since those guns have generally better triggers/resets than the P30

I'm slower with the USPs and HK45s on virtually every drill compared to all other platforms. I can get close with my USP9 if I spend a disproportionate time and rounds behind the trigger. Specifically, my personal best FAST drill time was around 6 flat using a P226 Legion SAO. People can knock Sig for their fuck-ups over the past decade, but I'm more accurate with that Legion than ANY other handgun I own, and I have a shitton. Gen 5 Glock 17s, 34s, and my EDC X9 are right behind that time. On the other hand, I'm at least 0.75-1.0 seconds slower with a USP9 which is my fastest HK unless I spend 1000 round dedicating myself to just that gun.

Moreover, I can generally clear a Dot Torture 90%+ of the time with a Sig, Glock, or Beretta with no practice between platforms. If I take a HK to a Dot Torture after shooting Glocks all day I'll drop a 47 or 48, guaranteed.

[Balisong]

That's interesting, thanks for sharing. It'd be interesting to know what portion of those performance differences is due to the trigger vs the other handling/sighting differences of the gun, but no idea how to break all that down. It does sound like you run the HK45 and USP better than the P30 though, which doesn't surprise me much.

[Sensei]

Re: the deadlines, it is LAZY Wolf Guns ;-)

Yeah, that crossed my mind too. However, I take at face value Rick's explanation that his time was being dominated by his collaboration with HKParts.net producing springs for the HK platforms. Whenever the cause, I put deadlines in quotes for a reason; they seemed to be more like goals...or maybe best case scenarios...

[Sensei]

That's interesting, thanks for sharing. It'd be interesting to know what portion of those performance differences is due to the trigger vs the other handling/sighting differences of the gun, but no idea how to break all that down. It does sound like you run the HK45 and USP better than the P30 though, which doesn't surprise me much.

It's the trigger. Mostly, it's the rest. The weight only becomes an issue if its more than 10-11 lbs. Most of my Sigs and Berettas have 8-10 lb DA pulls and there is virtually no difference in my first shot times or accuracy out of the holster among those pistols. I had 1 P220 that I recently put a 18lb hammer spring in because it had a 11lb DA pull and was throwing me off at times (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....er-Spring-Data). I now shoot it as fast as any other P220.

When it comes to the HK reset. I intentionally must focus on the reset or I'll short stroke it; this is true across their product line but particularly true for the P30 and P2000. My finger loves a gun with a short reset and no pretravel after the reset. The HK is the opposite of that and it shows in my splits between shots. The shorter the reset on the gun, the tighter my splits. For example, I notice tighter splits when using a SRT-equipped P-series Sig compared to a standard P-series.

I grew up shooting a 1911. I was able to cross over to the Glock without too much trouble in the 90's because the weight was pretty similar to my 1911s and the reset was fairly short. I intentionally avoided Berettas, Sigs, USPs, and anything with a cylinder mostly because of the longer reset. Things changed when Sig produced the SRT kit which reduced the reset to the shortest in the industry. The fact that the SRT is a factory modification that does not fuck with the gun's warranty is gold. Suddenly, I found myself shooting SA/DA P226s almost as fast as my 1911s. Now, Mr. Langdon's Trigger Job in a Bag and the Wilson Trigger job on their Beretta line has reduced the reset on Berettas just a bit so that I can now shoot those about as fast as any other gun.

I just wish there was an affordable and user-serviceable way to reduce the reset on HK like I can with a Sig; I've got the SRT install down to 30 min per pistol and it costs about $50. An SRT for the HK would literally be my Holy Grail. As it stands now, its just not practical to ship all of my HKs off to to get the reset cut by 1/3 at $600 a pop.