Backstrap Selection for Single Handed Use

[arcfide]

I've read the previous threads on backstrap and grip size selection. I've done some live fire testing, but honestly, the results seem more than adequately accounted for by statistical noise based on my own personal variances at a given time than anything concrete.

One of the issues with the previous threads is that they predominantly focus on two-handed shooting. To that end, there appears to be a significant amount of focus on the amount of support hand real estate that is available in the grip to help control recoil.

I'm wondering if the considerations change very much or if there are any rules of thumb that I might want to be aware of if I am interested in predominantly focusing on single handed shooting?

I saw a nice list that went like this: 1. Reliability 2. Controls 3. Accuracy 4. Speed 5. Comfort.

I'm talking about my Px4 and APX at the moment, both which have three backstraps. In the Px4 I generally need to "roll" the gun to hit the magazine release in any size backstrap. I get a *lot* of trigger finger on the gun with the small backstrap, and less with the large. I can reach the slide release any which way, and the safety/decocker is the same story. On the APX I can pretty much reach the magazine release without rolling with any of the backstraps, but it's trivial with the smallest and just at the far end of "too far to reach" with the large, I can do it, but I'd be more comfortable with a slide roll. The slide stop is similar.

So, #1 and #2 both seem a wash to me based on how I'm reading things. Accuracy against seems totally dependent on the day. If I use the right finger placement to account for the appropriate reach for each backstrap, and I remember to keep things aligned properly, and I don't compensate for lighting conditions incorrectly in the sight alignment, then it's all good. On days where I don't get those things right, then I'm either consistently left or consistently low-left with any of the backstraps.

Speed and comfort are also things that just don't seem to come to any statistically significant measures.

My take from this is that I need to practice more. :-) On the other hand, it would be nice to "settle" things in my mind a little bit about the backstrap. I have this somewhat irrational obsession over it, and I just seem to keep changing around and being unable to figure out what to stick with to continue to refine my training.

And that leaves me with the thought about single hand vs. two handed. If I were only focused on two handed, then I can see that I have more real estate for my support with the larger grips. However, if I am only focusing on single handed, I'm wondering if there is another mitigating factor that I might use to "make my decision."

Suggestions welcome! I'm happy to post pictures if anyone cares to see how the various grips compare in my hands and is willing to provide advice based on that if they think it would help.

[revchuck38]

If you're consistently shooting low-left with all backstraps using both hands, that issue needs to be addressed first. It sounds like a trigger manipulation issue. I'm not smart enough to tell you how to fix that; I'll leave it to others.

I've got three pistols with interchangeable backstraps - M&P40, M&P45, and full-size PX4. The large backstrap works for the M&P40 and the PX4. I started with the large on the M&P45, and it worked fine with both hands, but messed me up one-handed (I forget how, I've had the pistol a while), so I went to the medium and now the gun fits me both one- and two-handed. So for me, it appears to have been a trigger-reach issue.

On the PX4, I switched the mag release to the large available from Beretta and it took care of having to roll the pistol to hit the button.

As always, YMMV.

[JHC]

Very smart question IMO. I've found some really good two hand freestyle results with larger grip options but ended up always running the smallest option because the SHO/WHO was more effective that way and two handed didn't really suffer much and comes around.

[Doc_Glock]

Very smart question IMO. I've found some really good two hand freestyle results with larger grip options but ended up always running the smallest option because the SHO/WHO was more effective that way and two handed didn't really suffer much and comes around.

I agree this is an interesting question from @arcfide. I have generally been a fan of running grips as large as possible for my medium sized hands to get more friction and grip related real estate for the support hand. The SHO/WHO shooting question is really interesting because I have done some of my best one handed shooting with a Glock 43 and its decidedly small grip.

Like arcfide, I doubt there is any statistical significance to any particular grip as far as my personal shooting goes. I can shoot any grip size about the same two handed. If this is case, then why not bias in favor of single handed shooting when choosing grip.

Thanks for the thread and I hope some of the more experienced members jump in with comments.

[Larry T]

This is my one-hand grip. I flag my thumb and apply inward pressure against the top of the frame. The flagged thumb applying inward pressure helps with recoil wanting to push left. By the way, this is a Glock 17 with large beavertail backstrap. It's unrealistic to try to set up your grip on the assumption you may have to shoot one-handed. Set up your grip based on both hands and adjust your one-hand grip to that.

I got a lot of grip help by following Mike Seeklander's Youtube content. PS... I have no idea why the image is upside down. The original is correct.

[Peally]

Larry I didn't know you were Australian.

[arcfide]

If you're consistently shooting low-left with all backstraps using both hands, that issue needs to be addressed first. It sounds like a trigger manipulation issue. I'm not smart enough to tell you how to fix that; I'll leave it to others.

Yes, I diagnosed this and my "shooting left" problem a while ago. I still struggle with it, but I know what is happening. There are two issues going on, and they show up at different times. Some days it's not a problem, and others, I'm getting the low-left problem, and other times I'm getting the "just left" problem.

For reference, my hand span is about 8" and my handle length from wrist to the top of the middle finger is about 7.5".

The left problem is a combination of sight alignment, trigger finger placement, and natural point of aim. This shows up more in one handed shooting than it does two handed. With my eyes, I have a tendency to "see" the sights incorrectly, meaning that I have a tendency to naturally align the front post a bit to the left of center. When combined with a pretty strong sensitivity to grip and trigger finger placement, it means that my groups are consistently just a little left when I shoot one handed. In dry fire I was able to see this tendency of misaligning the sights as well as the effect of trigger finger placement, but I notice that with each grip size (APX & Px4), a different set of somethings causes issues. In other words, each grip size brings its own set of issues, even if it fixes the issues of another grip size.

I have a tendency to severely over-grip the gun, or want to grip it very, very hard, which can make tension issues show up as a sudden shake somewhere in the trigger press. Truly, the independent motion of the trigger finger while keeping the sights aligned is a simple, but challenging task!

With the low left issue, it tends to show up more in two handed shooting. In dry fire I can thread a needle with my front sight while pressing the trigger with two hands, no problem, with any grip size. But under live fire, I have that over-gripping problem again and a tendency to flinch or have what I think people around here call a pre-ignition push. In combination with my sight alignment issues, it has a tendency to push the gun down and to the left. :-)

No surprises there. As @Enel points out, there's a lot more for me to gain by getting my grip working well for single handed use first, since I am much better able to adapt with two handed shooting. But it's become very, very hard for me to assess which one is actually going to be better for me to train with and work with, given that each has current problems. Additionally, as an added bit of confusion, I'm one of those weirdos who really, really likes point shooting. It's just a type of shooting that I enjoy and it gives me a challenge. So for me, I care about how well I can "feel" the direction of my gun without using traditional sight alignment (people who say point shooting isn't using the sights are probably not aware of how much they index off the sights anyways, it's just not traditional usage of the sights). I like my gun to point well for me in a variety of non-standard positions of fire.

Ironically, because I'm not using the sights the same way when I point shoot, I don't have the low-left or left pull issues when I point shoot, and my groupings are actually more accurate on the whole.

I won't go into the details of what's wrong with each grip, since that would probably bore everyone to tears. However, here are some things I have in the "queue" to try to improve my shooting a bit.

1. I'm trying out some different sighting options. Given my astigmatism, and the fact that I am consistently misaligning the sights in their current configurations, and comparing that with my experience with some of my revolver sights, I'm experimenting with shifting away from busy sight pictures and trying an all black front and rear sight set up. I want to see if this makes it any easier for me to consistently align my sights, without dots and glowing things causing ghosting issues or the like.

2. I'm trying some non-traditional trigger finger placements with different grip sizes. Specifically, I'm trying the use of a *ton* of trigger finger with smaller grip sizes to see if that is easier to be consistent with versus the "pad" trigger finger placement with larger backstraps and longer trigger reach.

3. Continuing to work on tons of relaxation, since I know that I have a tendency to "tense up" as I approach breaking the shot, and that just messes up lots of stuff.

4. Letting the gun recoil versus muscling the gun around.

While the Px4 and APX are both two of the most ergonomic guns I've shot, and I'm able to handle the APX especially significantly better than most other semi-autos I've fired before, I can't help but wish that I could have an APX with a small grip but a Glock like grip angle. I think I'd really like a combination of a Steyr M9A1 or Glock style grip angle combined with the grip ergonomics of the APX. But they don't make a gun out there like that for me right now. Oh well. I have a Chiappa Rhino with an insane grip angle that is one of my favorite guns to accuracy shoot because I have no problems with single or double hand trigger manipulation or sight alignment. It's just a laser beam, and the grip angle makes it easier for me to keep things alignment properly and pull the trigger well.

And yes, I'm probably overthinking this. I'd still like to get the "perfect" backstrap size for my Px4 and APX. :-(

[arcfide]

This is my one-hand grip. I flag my thumb and apply inward pressure against the top of the frame. The flagged thumb applying inward pressure helps with recoil wanting to push left. By the way, this is a Glock 17 with large beavertail backstrap. It's unrealistic to try to set up your grip on the assumption you may have to shoot one-handed. Set up your grip based on both hands and adjust your one-hand grip to that.

Thanks for the input! While I can understand that advice, and I probably also agree with it, the truth is that I spend a significant bit more of my time shooting one handed than I do shooting with two hands. This isn't so much an issue of "I want to be prepared to shoot only with one hand" as it is that I really just enjoy shooting one handed a lot. So, while I don't disagree about performance metrics and the like regarding the benefits of two-handed shooting, this is largely a "for the fun of it" sort of thing, and I'm interested in maximizing my performance with single-handed shooting, and it's not clear how best to do that as it relates to grip.

I've played around a little bit with the flagging of the thumb, but not in a while, so it might be a good idea for me to revisit that and see how it affects my shooting. Thanks!

[Larry T]

I've played around a little bit with the flagging of the thumb, but not in a while, so it might be a good idea for me to revisit that and see how it affects my shooting. Thanks!

It works well for me as long as the frame is a hair wider than the slide where my thumb is. Otherwise you may get a little cut or may retard the slide.