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Thread: 'It's my job to protect them': U.S. teachers train to carry guns in class

  1. #1

    'It's my job to protect them': U.S. teachers train to carry guns in class

    Retired police officer Bryan Proctor runs Go Strapped, a firearms training business in Arlington, Texas. He's one of the few people in the U.S. qualified to train teachers to take their guns into classrooms. The teachers must have a gun licence, then pass Proctor's two-day course, and finally get permission from their school board before they can carry firearms into their school. "When that active killer is in the classroom, a teacher can either have a pencil or they can have a gun," Proctor says. "The point is there are killers in our environment. They will find the weakest people they can kill, the most defenceless, and they will go after them," Proctor says. "If you call 911, the killing has already started. You have to have someone there in order to mitigate the damage."
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/teacher...ters-1.4584612

  2. #2
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    All the left hears on this issue is that every teacher is going to be unwillingly forced to carry. I like what John Lovell said in a video - "don't make teachers carry - just allow those that are trained and want to." That would be a good place to start.
    Last edited by Larry T; 03-24-2018 at 08:52 AM.

  3. #3
    Thank you for posting the link, Wendell. I certainly think that the training described there is a great thing. The SIMs part looks like an excellent idea.

    However, one thing rubbed me a wrong way. Maybe it is a headache that I have this morning, or having to go to work on off day, don't know why I am belligerent. At the end of training instructor passes all participants, despite some of them hitting a hostage in live fire. I wouldn't have. Maybe give them a provisional certificate and tell them come back for a re-test when they can at least not to hit the hostage. Maybe consider that 200 rounds and 45 minute session could be fatiguing for many and sets them up for failure so re-structure this part. Say, practice a little and then 10-20 shots "qual". Just doesn't seem right to dilute a value and significance of this effort by letting hostage-hit targets pass.
    Last edited by YVK; 03-24-2018 at 10:00 AM.

  4. #4
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    despite some of them hitting a hostage in live fire.
    When I was a participant in a university police run FOF, I was 'shot' by an officer when I was a victim and standing there with my hands up during their entry. He said, that I moved. Which I didn't.

    I've seen quite expert shooters shoot good guys in matches and innocents in other FOF like the old NTI.

    So is that criterion too strict> Should the officer be benched, so to speak? In the medical world, there is an acceptable level of false alarms in surgeries. A friend of mine analyzed these for state licensure reasons. For example a doc who always operated on hot appendices was said to be waiting too long to be sure and risking rupture and worse consequences. Is there an acceptable risk?

    Just a thought.

  5. #5
    It comes down to a minimally required level of proficiency to pass a test. They are not shooting in FOF training. They aren't pushing speed on a match COF. They are shooting standing still on a static target of a true human size with the entire head and chest open and, best I can tell, without any time pressure.
    If a teacher wants to come to work packing and exercising his/her basic human self-defense right, I have no issues. Now, this thing is billed under "my job to protect" and involves state mandated training and hurdles to pass. That to me has a different connotation. For what the live fire portion is described to be, I think passing people with hostage hits is a bad form, for more than one reason.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  6. #6
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    I should have read the article first - duh. I see your point. Hitting the kid in that static situation - that says to me they need much more basic skills time. It's different from a dark house run with surprise moving targets.

    You are right on this one. That picture is an argument for not arming that teacher.

  7. #7
    I am in favor of allowing trained teachers to carry firearms if they wish, but that target sucks. It would have been better to use whatever targets the local police use.

  8. #8
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    I'm ALL for training them to a high level of standard and I'd demand a high level pistol qual of anyone who would be carrying a gun in my nephew's school. At least the local police qual, or dark pin level performance on Gabe White's standards.

    But that's just me.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    I'm ALL for training them to a high level of standard and I'd demand a high level pistol qual of anyone who would be carrying a gun in my nephew's school. At least the local police qual, or dark pin level performance on Gabe White's standards.

    But that's just me.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Gabe’s Dark pin is a much higher level of proficency than most LE quals, local or otherwise. I would say 50% of the Officers in my Agency would have hit the kid in that hostage target at > 7 yards given the number of rounds fired. That said, outer guys, as a group, shoot better than the SO we share the range with, though part of that may be because the SO guys only shoot once per year unless they are in a special unit.

    The article is a very incomplete picture of TX School Marshal training.

    It is standardized program developed and administered by TCOLE the same body which licenses and sets minimum training standards for Texas LE. In my area, the training is conducted by a regional police academy.

    Scenario based training with SIMS is part of the training as is live fire in photo realistic targets but I do not believe that hostage target is part of the official qualification. I will inquire next week.

  10. #10
    Good points, HCM. As I mentioned earlier, that format of live fire part could be a setup for failure or perceived failure. If that librarian lady fired 200 rounds and hit hostage 6 times, at 20 yards, that might be better accuracy than most gun owners. Then again, her target didn't look like having 200 holes there so we might not be getting a full picture.
    I don't think Gabe's standards is a measure here. His stuff is heavily draw centric and is 7 yards. Those teachers are unlikely to draw fast and are very likely to engage at longer distances. What I would like to see is that target shot cold, 10 rounds, no particular time pressure, no misses, no hostage hits, to pass. I think it would be a lot more realistic. And, while gear is secondary, I think that RDS enabled pistols would be a great gear choice.
    Somewhat tangentially but in the same vein, I am a little unnerved that there has not been a report yet whose bullet hit the second kid in Maryland shooting. I really hope it was perp's, not SRO's.
    Last edited by YVK; 03-25-2018 at 12:27 AM.

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