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Thread: Best Total All round Dry Fire / Laser system

  1. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    First post here....but thought I might weigh in on my personal experiences.

    First off - hello everyone!

    I use the iTarget system at home (consists of a laser bullet, and a phone/target stand, and a downloadable app for Android/iOS). I have found it enormously useful...the laser inserts into the bore, its hit is recorded by the phone. Very straight forward.

    First things first, perfect practice makes perfect. In most public ranges, it is nearly impossible to accomplish this - whether its rules around holsters/presentation, or movement restricted by lane....either way, this system allows unrestricted first-shot presentation and deployment. While no recoil is felt...this is immaterial to the first shot...it leaves the barrel before the shooter experiences any felt recoil. I would argue very heavily that in any defensive situation, smooth presentation (smooth makes fast), and accurate first shot is 95% of the fight. The placement of that round will likely stop the threat. The consumer grade laser products generally speaking are fantastic at facilitating an inexpensive, repeatable activity that can dramatically improve hit probability. Follow-up shots are of course likely a better live-fire activity, as they are 100% recoil/recovery dependent.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one am a more proficient shooter when I dry fire practice (nearly daily). That and malfunction clearing and mag swaps!

  2. #12
    I use the Smokeless Range from Laser Ammo. I use the drop in IR lasers in my Sig P226. The software runs on a standard laptop (you need a laptop with a discrete video card if you run the IPSC module), the IR camera comes with the software and you have to purchase your own projector based on your needs. The website has all of the reqirements for the computer and projector. The standard Smokeless Range package is 10 skill based modules. It has several add on modules allow you to customize what you want or need. One of the most powerful is the Open Range add on module that allows you to build custom courses. You can even create your own backgrounds and targets. I get about 1500 dry-fire shots in per week of quality training. If I find a drill online, I can put it in open range as a course in about 20-30 minutes (time spent creating targets and then building the course). Users can export and share courses with other users. Other modules are the IPSC Challenge (Competitive Shooting), Fast Draw, Video Scenario Trainer, Tactical Targets, etc. If Laser Ammo puts out any updates/ or new courses for modules you own you get those updates for free. Customer support on Smokeless Range is great; if you email/call them you are talking to the people that actually write the software instead of some third party. The software is always getting updates so it is always getting better and many of the updates are coming from end users giving feedback.
    - Daryl

    2nd place is a terrible place to be at the end of a gun fight.

  3. #13
    My wife got me a LaserPet and matching laser ammo emitter for Father’s Day. It certainly does make dry fire more fun, but, John is correct in that you need to be disciplined and not stare at the red dot vs. sights. I use a G19x with americano FBI sights. At around 3 yards (across my living room) my front sight obscures the majority of the PET. I use the 1/2” dia aperture for slow fire which you can’t see at all. My personal you missed even if the Pet beeps is if I can see the red dot. As with everything there is some personal responsibility in how the tool is used. It’s not a magic pill.

    I do like that timer modes that allow draw practice, reload training... all in one compact unit.

    IMO, if $200 or so gets you on the trigger cause it’s more fun, so long as you understand the limitations it’s $$ well spent.

  4. #14
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Northern Mississippi
    So, I've started to reconsider my position on this topic:

    At Tac Con this year, a vendor was giving away laser training cartridges. You may have seen these things - they look like an elongated cartridge and chamber in your pistol. When you drop the striker/hammer you get a flash of laser that is roughly in line with the bore. The cartridges are offered by a bunch of folks but the one I'm using sells for $40. As a bonus, the area/switch where the striker/falling pin falls is rubber and seems to offer a good cushion, serving as a snap cap.

    Since I want to be looking at the front sight, I didn't see much point in these as they seem to encourage focus on the wrong object. I was recently made aware of a variety of inexpensive phone apps that use the built-in camera to spot the shots. Since I've got a Gabe White class coming up and really need to work on my draw stroke, I figured that this might be an inexpensive way to get some reps for not a lot of money since I could rely on the device to track the shots and I could worry about the bumpy thing on the front of the gun.

    I ended up with two apps. The one I liked was LaserHit. If you go to their web site they will try to sell you all sorts of "packages" to separate you from your money. I just spent the $10 on their timer based "Quick Hit" app and had a small iPhone tripod already on hand.

    LaserHit seems to be a solid product. You have to calibrate it every time and use their targets (which you can print for free) but it calls every shot with a good bit of precision. You don't have to set up the phone directly in front of the target either. It will calibrate based on the position of the phone in relation to the target. When you fire a "shot" the app calls the shot for you. Anything that isn't in the 10 ring is called on the clock face so if you shanked one low and left the device will say "8 ring at 7:00." The app also places a marker showing where the round would have landed. As best I can tell, the shot calling is very accurate and I've worked hard to make sure the sight call from my sights matches the shot call from the device and it always seems to work.

    Right now, I'm using the app for three things:
    1) First round from the holster.
    2) First round from the ready
    3) One handed shooting - dominant and non-dominant hand

    The app could be used to work reloads as well but I just haven't done it yet.

    As a final nice feature, because you have the laser cartridge in the chamber of the pistol, you have made it extremely difficult to have an ND. I've got the cartridge installed in a spare pistol so I effectively have a dedicated, safe trainer.

    There are some obvious drawbacks to this system as a dry practice aid. With a striker fired pistol, you have to rack the slide to generate another laser flash. Multiple shot strings aren't an option but I'm not that worried about multiple shots without recoil to go along with them. Every time you run the app you have to re-calibrate it. It doesn't take long, but I'm sure someone will whine. You are limited to the targets they provide. Not a deal breaker since I'm only counting hits in the 10 ring as hits given the relative short distances involved. I wish their shot timer app had an auto-cycle mode. You have to trigger the next round with a laser flash so you end up firing two shot and cycling the slide twice for each presentation. The only other "quirk" is that the system is sensitive to movement. I had a small fan blowing past my phone towards me and there was disturbance that the device didn't want to calibrate.

    Right now, I'm very happy with the $10 I've spent. Even if I had purchased the cartridge, $50 is a modest price to pay for the unlimited work potential you get.
    • It's not the odds, it's the stakes.
    • If you aren't dry practicing every week, you're not serious.....
    • "Tache-Psyche Effect - a polite way of saying 'You suck.' " - GG

  5. #15
    Member Sal Picante's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SunCoast
    Shooting Sports USA.


  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Pepperoni View Post
    Shooting Sports USA.

    This would be awesome to own, but I bet they cost a fortune and for most of us probably arent feasible. Your office is way cooler than mine.

    -Cory
    Last edited by Cory; 09-24-2018 at 05:13 PM.

  7. #17
    Member Sal Picante's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    SunCoast
    Quote Originally Posted by cor_man257 View Post
    This would be awesome to own, but I bet they cost a fortune and for most of us probably arent feasible. Your office is way cooler than mine.

    -Cory
    Ebay - sometimes you can find a cabinet for $400-$700 bucks.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    Multiple shot strings aren't an option but I'm not that worried about multiple shots without recoil to go along with them.
    "the worst thing you can do is what most people do, is just one click." :56 seconds in.

    Stoeger also suggests not dropping the hammer on dry fire par time holster draws.

    https://youtu.be/beOVo1HQd30

  9. #19
    Member feudist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Murderham, the Tragic City
    Quote Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
    "the worst thing you can do is what most people do, is just one click." :56 seconds in.

    Stoeger also suggests not dropping the hammer on dry fire par time holster draws.

    https://youtu.be/beOVo1HQd30
    As does Anderson.

  10. #20
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Southwest Pennsylvania
    I just tried the LASR system with a SIRT after seeing it at the NRA Annual Meeting. I am impressed. Not only is feedback improved, but the tendency to look for the laser is reduced since I can see my hits on the screen after shooting.



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    Any legal information I may post is general information, and is not legal advice. Such information may or may not apply to your specific situation. I am not your attorney unless an attorney-client relationship is separately and privately established.

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