Trade offs between sights and trigger

[P.E. Kelley]

Them sights must help you out.....haha

The lack of bevel on the mag well and that lanyard loop were more difficult to overcome!

[JHC]

What I think I am saying is that it is easier to manage one variable than two, and so far I like the trade off of less sights, allowing for a less interrupted trigger press.

Proper RDS shooting - is done by concentrating on the target vs the dot correct? That is what I generally understand to be the method.

I've notices shooting with target focus and blurry sights that a high vis front like the HD or a FO front - creates a RDS like effect as you see the high vis post superimpose on the target.

Is target focus and great trigger work the better mousetrap than front sight focus when shooting irons?

[41magfan]

For us mortals, the continuum of sight use (hard focus, soft focus, or not in our line of sight) is largely determined by the three constant variables; the size of the target, the distance to the target and the constraint of time. Some folks are obviously born with a lot more hand/eye coordination than others, so shooting takes less effort. The rest of us make for what we don't have with training and practice.

I said all that just to say this. Just as with iron sights, the variables (and my skill) determine how soft or hard my focus is on the "dot" or reticle in a scope. The greater the precision requirement, the greater my focus needs to be on the dot/reticle.

Again, just about everyone I know tends to overwork the sights (or dot) and underwork the trigger in relation to the difficulty of the shot being presented. In a defensive use setting, the difficulty of the shot isn't usually that tough, but people routinely miss at very close range. Why? Because simply extending the gun to arms length and yanking the trigger is a nothing more than glorified noise making in terms of predictability.

I tell my students, "If you're going to aim - aim, if you're going to point - point, but you've got to do one or the other well enough to hit the target. But yanking the trigger tends to nullify either technique of orienting the muzzle.

[StraitR]

Proper RDS shooting - is done by concentrating on the target vs the dot correct? That is what I generally understand to be the method.

I've notices shooting with target focus and blurry sights that a high vis front like the HD or a FO front - creates a RDS like effect as you see the high vis post superimpose on the target.

Is target focus and great trigger work the better mousetrap than front sight focus when shooting irons?

I've thought about that, but figured if it were fundamentally true, it would have become the generally accepted best practice long before I pondered it. haha

In any case, I think it has merit, as long as one has a very good and repeatable foundation (read: automaticity) of presentation, grip, and sight alignment. I surmise that may actually be the grease when it comes to ultra-high level shooters (like TGO), and there are likely an infinite number of variations depending on shot difficulty, urgency, and internal/external stressors.

[Gio]

Proper RDS shooting - is done by concentrating on the target vs the dot correct? That is what I generally understand to be the method.

I've notices shooting with target focus and blurry sights that a high vis front like the HD or a FO front - creates a RDS like effect as you see the high vis post superimpose on the target.

Is target focus and great trigger work the better mousetrap than front sight focus when shooting irons?

Target focus is much faster but not nearly as precise. The tighter the shots get the more you need a crisp front sight focus. I find I can generally target focus almost any paper targets in USPSA if I'm shooting major pf, but with minor PF at 25+ yards and 8" steel plates or mini poppers at 25+ I generally will use a crisp front sight focus.

[Gio]

[MENTION=410]Coincidentally, I've been exploring the variables required for making tough shots as well: 1) sights, 2) trigger, and 3) grip. I have found that if fatigue occurs, my accuracy declines. And if my trigger press is good, I do not need a full-power crush grip--especially with a heavy Shadow2 where free(er) recoil does not affect POI.

Fatigue is a huge factor. I find I can only shoot at my top level at distance for a few hundred rounds in a practice session before my hands and focus really starts to fatigue. Also, you are right about the gun weight. A polymer framed gun requires a lot more "muscling" in my experience.

[GJM]

Fatigue is a huge factor. I find I can only shoot at my top level at distance for a few hundred rounds in a practice session before my hands and focus really starts to fatigue. Also, you are right about the gun weight. A polymer framed gun requires a lot more "muscling" in my experience.

I also experience the onset of fatigue, and I think perhaps more so with the Glock. Probably due to some combination of the light weight of the Glock, the relatively long and heavy trigger relative to gun weight, and the specific nature of the Glock trigger. To shoot a Glock at my highest level, I have to be fearless and work the trigger aggressively while the sights are in motion. That is quite different than a heavynoistol with a short, light trigger.

[Clusterfrack]

@GJM, thanks for starting this thread. Coincidentally, I've been exploring the variables required for making tough shots as well: 1) sights, 2) trigger, and 3) grip. I have found that if fatigue occurs, my accuracy declines. And if my trigger press is good, I do not need a full-power crush grip--especially with a heavy Shadow2 where free(er) recoil does not affect POI.

Today, I did not find that focusing on trigger more and sights less made for better groups at 25 yds. My groups were similar (5"), but the "less sights" group ended up shifted 3" right due (I think) to lighting conditions and less focus on rear alignment.

When I moved back to 55yds on a 10" plate, I started to see what you're describing, but the sight picture was very unambiguous--plate against dark soil with good lighting. So, no unicorns farting rainbows for me yet... but I'll keep playing with this.

One more thought: there are actually two sight variables: alignment and wobble. I think you're saying that trying to eliminate wobble isn't needed, and my conclusion is that alignment on small/distant targets cannot be taken for granted.

So, it turns out that that my sights were actually off by 3" to the right. It looks like either switching from SNS to Blue Bullets, or 10,000 rounds caused a POI shift in one of my Shadow2's.

Continuing to explore this...

[Clusterfrack]

Yes, I find the same thing too. Especially with a heavynoistol.

I also experience the onset of fatigue, and I think perhaps more so with the Glock. Probably due to some combination of the light weight of the Glock, the relatively long and heavy trigger relative to gun weight, and the specific nature of the Glock trigger. To shoot a Glock at my highest level, I have to be fearless and work the trigger aggressively while the sights are in motion. That is quite different than a heavynoistol with a short, light trigger.

[GJM]

Yes, I find the same thing too. Especially with a heavynoistol.

Hey, damn iPad spelling.

My G5/34 was shooting 1.5 inches right at 30 yards this afternoon with my AE 115 match load, and I went home got the MGW tool, tweaked the rear sight a touch left, and returned to the range to verify zero.