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Thread: Great info from Karl Rehn

  1. #21
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacioli View Post
    It's Texas, goes without saying.
    It's the law. There must be a barbeque joint within 21 miles of everyone.

  2. #22
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    It's the law. There must be a barbeque joint within 21 miles of everyone.
    It used to be 18 but what with the Dems trying to ban anything that's either fun or has cholesterol...well, was 21 really a surprise?
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  3. #23
    Site Supporter 41magfan's Avatar
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    The flip-side of the same coin, if you will ....

    While I can appreciate all the points made by Mr. Rehn concerning unknowing/unprepared students, I really don't see that disconnect being any more troubling or problematic than a hard core gun-guy (with a dozen schools under his belt) that only carries a few hours a day after work and on the weekends.

    For a host of practical reasons, the majority of average gun-toters carry small guns in fairly "deep" places, but they’re still armed all the time. Having said that, who is really rolling the dice here? The lesser skilled that’s lesser armed and prepared, or the better skilled who is unarmed the majority of the time he’s “out and about”?

    Along these same lines: Running to the store in the evening for a gallon of milk is the most dangerous activity most people participate in, but a disproportionate number of "gun people" seem to have no qualms carrying a small "errand gun" in an "errand holster" for those duties. I see that as fragmented logic, but that’s just me.

    Regrettably, most of the teaching venues out there are fairly irrelevant to the collective majority who - statistically speaking - are much more likely to use their guns in self-defense. I know full well the challenges associated with conducting training from pockets, purses, bell-bands and crotch rigs, but that’s the reality for MOST citizen gun carriers and it’s not being addressed by the firearms training community at large.

    Square range training doing square range drills is easy, that’s why everyone does it. While that model will always have its purpose, I do wish there were more trainers doing things relevant to preparing the average armed citizen who will NEVER be a gun enthusiast. Those folks outnumber "us" a zillion to one.
    The path of least resistance will seldom get you where you need to be.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 41magfan View Post
    The flip-side of the same coin, if you will ....

    While I can appreciate all the points made by Mr. Rehn concerning unknowing/unprepared students, I really don't see that disconnect being any more troubling or problematic than a hard core gun-guy (with a dozen schools under his belt) that only carries a few hours a day after work and on the weekends.

    For a host of practical reasons, the majority of average gun-toters carry small guns in fairly "deep" places, but they’re still armed all the time. Having said that, who is really rolling the dice here? The lesser skilled that’s lesser armed and prepared, or the better skilled who is unarmed the majority of the time he’s “out and about”?

    Along these same lines: Running to the store in the evening for a gallon of milk is the most dangerous activity most people participate in, but a disproportionate number of "gun people" seem to have no qualms carrying a small "errand gun" in an "errand holster" for those duties. I see that as fragmented logic, but that’s just me.

    Regrettably, most of the teaching venues out there are fairly irrelevant to the collective majority who - statistically speaking - are much more likely to use their guns in self-defense. I know full well the challenges associated with conducting training from pockets, purses, bell-bands and crotch rigs, but that’s the reality for MOST citizen gun carriers and it’s not being addressed by the firearms training community at large.

    Square range training doing square range drills is easy, that’s why everyone does it. While that model will always have its purpose, I do wish there were more trainers doing things relevant to preparing the average armed citizen who will NEVER be a gun enthusiast. Those folks outnumber "us" a zillion to one.
    Excellent points. It's not just you. When you look at the availability of courses available you find 10 to 1 for shooting or higher round count square range type courses to every Force on Force or scenario based training program. It gets worse when comparing shooting courses to mindset which is probably 20:1 or worse. Probably can't blame the supply and demand market forces for being what they are but I don't see things changing anytime soon.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by octagon View Post
    Excellent points. It's not just you. When you look at the availability of courses available you find 10 to 1 for shooting or higher round count square range type courses to every Force on Force or scenario based training program. It gets worse when comparing shooting courses to mindset which is probably 20:1 or worse. Probably can't blame the supply and demand market forces for being what they are but I don't see things changing anytime soon.
    FWIW, that March 3 class was a long day. The morning was a somewhat-advanced shooting course, the afternoon was force-on-force and was the most stressful for me, then we had the low-light class. Karl made a remark along the same lines as yours about the force-on-force training - most people need the force-on-force training more than the shooting, but it's not fun like the shooting is.

  6. #26
    New Member schüler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    I do not really understand the point on the 25 yards to 60 yard discussion. I would proffer few people shoot it well because few people ever have the opportunity to shoot handguns that distance. I certainly don't.
    50+ proves personal accuracy performance. It shows where your 7yd target bullet goes if you miss - and 99% of the time that long trajectory is higher than most people assume.

    There have been a few times in history where it could have made all the difference in the world, Columbine for one.

    I get the fact you don't get it. Saying it once is enough.

  7. #27
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    Karl is great, BBQ is great. He does great FOF. He brings in great guests. Some of which we know here. Interestingly, when I moved to TX, I found KRtraining through a intro gun continuing ed. course from UT - in the catalog of pottery and cooking classes. Every one needs to do FOF. In my first FOF run at Karl's I got shot in the hand at night and outside with a Code Eagle. It was some red goo and I though it was my hand's goo for a second - that gives you thought beyond the square range.

  8. #28
    I wasn’t aware of their long history and scope of training:

    https://krtraining.com/
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #29
    Member MVS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I wasn’t aware of their long history and scope of training:

    https://krtraining.com/
    That is one of the reasons I find his stories interesting. He gets to see a LOT of stuff.

    Well that and he is a C.O. GM
    Last edited by MVS; 03-08-2018 at 10:05 PM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 41magfan View Post
    Regrettably, most of the teaching venues out there are fairly irrelevant to the collective majority who - statistically speaking - are much more likely to use their guns in self-defense. I know full well the challenges associated with conducting training from pockets, purses, bell-bands and crotch rigs, but that’s the reality for MOST citizen gun carriers and it’s not being addressed by the firearms training community at large.

    Square range training doing square range drills is easy, that’s why everyone does it. While that model will always have its purpose, I do wish there were more trainers doing things relevant to preparing the average armed citizen who will NEVER be a gun enthusiast. Those folks outnumber "us" a zillion to one.
    From his post.
    Another student had an Urban Carry crotch holster, which sort of worked, but was completely impractical for doing multiple presentations and reholstering, which was the goal of the lesson.
    Kind of hard to run a class where folks have all kinds of different holsters with sweep dangers and questionable trigger discipline habits. It's hard enough to maintain a safe line with OWB/AWB holsters much less when one guy has a coat holster that requires him sweeping his off hand that's holding the holster still, his chest and everyone down line to his left while the guy a few down is pointing his gun at his pubic bone while trying to stuff his piece in his codpiece.

    Doing the very basic square range classes with the "average" shooter is all you can safely do. If you're one on one you can do a little more but not with a group.

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