Great info from Karl Rehn

[Duelist]

No you are missing the point. I am saying most people do not have the physical means to practice long range shooting due to distance limits at most ranges. I live in Central Texas and have access to 6 ranges in driving distance including clubs with shooting bays where we compete. Of those ranges maybe one has a bay you could shoot 40 yards with a pistol. Most people just physically do not have access to a location where they can practice longer range pistol shots.

I dry fire with small targets that are equal to 50 yards, but I do not have access to an actual range where I can shoot that.

They don't have rifle ranges near you?

[Zincwarrior]

They don't have rifle ranges near you?

To shoot pistol?
This is question not a criticism.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

One reason folks don't like FOF or shoot houses, is sometimes you stand there as a failure or looking like an idiot. That shatters your warrior mindset. One thing the old NTI did at initial intro briefing was to say when that happens - don't whine. I won't tell you why I didn't whine at some interactions.

I did learn from them. About trigger control - typical gun guy - buys gun and it shoots off center, up for down. Well, who can handle the Glock grip (we all know it's ergonomically flawed). Those damn sights are off, better crank them almost off the gun. Been there with my friends. I used to shoot to right - why - Tom Givens saw my grip and now I am pretty accurate for me.

But who wants to be told it is you? That's a drop down the dominance hierarchy. Being a NY'er by birth and a scientist - I did not have the initial warrior ego investment and had a learning paradigm. Teach me!

Thus, when a 'warrior' friend of mine took his new semi to the range, it wouldn't shoot straight. Must be the sights. Could you give it a try? OK - dead, beautifully center in the bullseye. OH, well. Note, I did not fire a second shot. Just gave him the gun back with a knowing grin (I'm not stupid!).

Karl runs some great FOF where success is not guaranteed and the solution is not always a shoot'em up.

[Duelist]

To shoot pistol?
This is question not a criticism.

I can't pretend to know what the rules are everywhere, but rifle ranges typically have a minimum of 100 yards available to shoot at. My local range impact area is a mountain, and we have targets out to over 500 yards. I frequently shoot pistols at targets that are 100 or more yards away there. Not that I always hit them, but the range is there and the rules don't preclude the practice. If you want to shoot a pistol that far, it only makes sense to use a facility that is designed for extended range shooting.

[BN]

When I mentioned Elmer Keith, he said, "Who's that?"
Facepalm.
Some days I don't know whether to feel experienced or just old.
Okie John

I was at a State Pistol match one time. I don't remember if it was IDPA or an older USPSA. One stage was a cantina stage with table etc. On the table was a picture of Jeff Cooper. I overheard somebody asking who was the old man in the picture. Facepalm.

[okie john]

To shoot pistol?
This is question not a criticism.

Sure, it just depends on the rules.

At my club, members who have demonstrated a solid understanding of safety are allowed to do off-menu stuff if circumstances permit. The key is earning the range master's trust. It also helps to clear your activity on a case-by-case basis so you avoid inspiring the unwashed masses to outrun their headlights. For instance, don't expect to shoot rollover prone at 100 yards with a Roland Special on Hunter Sight-In Day. That's the day you should help Cletus zero his 30-30, and come back after deer season for the fun stuff.


Okie John

[Lomshek]

Originally Posted by okie john
When I mentioned Elmer Keith, he said, "Who's that?"
Facepalm.
Some days I don't know whether to feel experienced or just old.
Okie John

I was at a State Pistol match one time. I don't remember if it was IDPA or an older USPSA. One stage was a cantina stage with table etc. On the table was a picture of Jeff Cooper. I overheard somebody asking who was the old man in the picture. Facepalm.

To be honest though you have to bear in mind how long one has to have been into guns to have heard either of those names in more than passing reference. Yeah some of us lunatics read their writings in the 80's (Elmer's even then were re-postings obviously) but you have to have been into guns seriously and reading everything there was in the 90's to know anything about those two and other innovators from the early years of "modern" shooting (not sure if Elmer would count as a modern guy or just a guy who pushed the envelope in his day).

[45dotACP]

Very interesting...I've not heard much about Karl Rehn, but it sounds like I ought to try to make it down to train with him at some point.

In terms of shooting past 15 yards, I've found that I can shoot fairly well out to about 25 yards with no problems, and I can keep the magazine of my 1911 in a USPSA metric target at 50 yards.

I've really been wanting to try my 8-3/8" model 57 in a Silhouette match or to take it to 100 yards. The thing shoots about as well as I could expect to shoot a rifle at 25 yards good lord.

[CCT125US]

Having worked on public ranges for several years, I firmly believe that 99% of shooters have no idea where their pistols hit or that it's possible/desirable/necessary to zero one. Even on websites that profess to be all about shooting, intelligent discussions of pistol zero are nonexistent--most of them devolve into the "combat accuracy" gibberish on the first page.

This thread once again reminds me of how poorly educated the average shooter is and how switched on the typical PF poster is. Yesterday I met a guy at the range who's about my age. Eventually the conversation drifted to shooting handguns at distances beyond 100 yards. When I mentioned Elmer Keith, he said, "Who's that?"

Facepalm.

I described Elmer's method, then used it to get a first-round hit at 100 yards with a G19 and ball ammo. Then I wrote Elmer's name on a Post-It note so this knucklehead can go do his homework.

Some days I don't know whether to feel experienced or just old.


Okie John

His method works extremely well once understood.

[okie john]

To be honest though you have to bear in mind how long one has to have been into guns to have heard either of those names in more than passing reference. Yeah some of us lunatics read their writings in the 80's (Elmer's even then were re-postings obviously) but you have to have been into guns seriously and reading everything there was in the 90's to know anything about those two and other innovators from the early years of "modern" shooting (not sure if Elmer would count as a modern guy or just a guy who pushed the envelope in his day).

I think part of is is how long you've been into guns. Another part is how deep--a new shooter who does some research into action shooting will soon stumble across mentions of Jeff Cooper, and a new shooter who does some research into handgun hunting will run into mentions of Elmer Keith.

Keith was definitely a pioneer like McGivern, but I feel like the modern school started when Jeff Cooper opened API.

And just writing that sentence makes me feel old.


Okie John