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Thread: Federal Air Marshal Qual (and others)?

  1. #1
    S.L.O.W. ASH556's Avatar
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    Federal Air Marshal Qual (and others)?

    I've heard the air marshal qual referenced as being a good baseline. As our church evaluates/creates additional safety/security measures including armed personnel (currently just myself and an off-duty, but in-uniform police officer), I'd like to submit a stringent qualification that any additional armed folks need to pass before being authorized to carry at the church.

    Additionally, I just like practicing/testing myself against "known" standards as a means of continuous improvement.

    I Googled and searched P-F and was unsuccessful in finding the COF for the Air Marshal qual. Could someone please direct me to it. Also, I'd love to hear any other recommendations for quals. The more difficult, the better.

    Thanks!

    ETA: I would prefer things that incorporate both close (3-5yd) and far (25yd +) with strict scoring and speed requirements; also SHO and WHO.
    Last edited by ASH556; 03-01-2018 at 01:17 PM.
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  2. #2
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    The FAMS Tactical Pistol Course is going to be a smoke-show for average gun owners, and even well trained ones. I'm going to guess that none of your church members will be able to pass it on demand, unless you're attending the Church of The Great One, or something.

    The TPC was abandoned with the surge post-9/11, and currently they pretty much shoot the standard FLETC course. Nothing tough or special about it.

    ETA: Pistol-Training.com post about the TPC with a nice score sheet.
    Last edited by TGS; 03-01-2018 at 01:36 PM.
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  3. #3
    Member Gadfly's Avatar
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    I have shot dozens of agency quals over the years, and all are easily passed by what PF would consider low to average shooters. These courses include INS/HSI/DEA/BP/FAMS (old and new standard)/Postal inspectors/Park Police/US fish and wildlife/Secret Service... they are all slightly different, but not by a great deal. I personally think they are measures of mediocre skill, as you stand flat footed and bang away at stationary targets. When people I work with think they are good shots for scoring 95% on an agency qual, all I can think is most of them would rank as Novice on a classifier match.

    I think the IDPA qualifier is harder than most LEO quals. You may start there and look for folks in the High marksman/low expert range with a stock service pistol.

    Just my thoughts... I have not shot the new FAMS Course in several years, but from what I recall, it was not too difficult. The original FAMS course was more of a challenge for sure, but since so many were failing, they lowered the standard to increase the graduation rates.
    Last edited by Gadfly; 03-01-2018 at 01:39 PM.
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  4. #4
    I'm a big fan of DB's Modified LAPD D-Platoon Qual. It doesn't have any SHO or WHO shooting but does have shooting on the move and shooting at distances from 25y to 3y. The time standards and accuracy standards are doable but definitely difficult for shooters who don't practice a lot. The accuracy standards are also pretty unforgiving because any shot that misses the target backer completely is a DQ.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    Mike Pannone's Marksmanship Evaluation Course.

    Mike's comments:
    This is my Marksmanship Evaluation Course (MEC). It is based on the old air marshal TPC but it is much more difficult and has some different stages. It was not designed as a course to be practiced. It was designed as a validation and evaluation course. It is also designed using an accuracy and a speed metric that must both be achieved to standard in order to pass the course. By design you cannot shoot outside of your skill level or you will likely fail. The real challenge on this is doing it from concealment. It is an unforgiving and very challenging course of fire… deceivingly so.

    http://www.ctt-solutions.com/wp-cont...core-Sheet.pdf

    Video with Mike demo here:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/oug2de3htr...final.mov?dl=0


    For something with less rounds Ken Hackathorn's Wizard Drill




    If you are testing someone Pannone's drill will tell you exactly what they are capable of. Hackathorn's drill is a basic determination of if they are good enough.
    Last edited by JohnO; 03-01-2018 at 02:07 PM.

  6. #6
    Dot Driver Kyle Reese's Avatar
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    I'm a huge fan of the old school FAM TPC, and consider it a good baseline to gauge proficiency with a handgun.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    What about your state's Law Enforcement Qualification test? It might not be as stringent as you want, but it might be a plus to say your people have passed the state test. You'll find that many CCW's can't pass it.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASH556 View Post
    ETA: I would prefer things that incorporate both close (3-5yd) and far (25yd +) with strict scoring and speed requirements; also SHO and WHO.
    Check out the FBI Pistol Qualification Course of fire. It starts at 3 yards, concludes at 25 yards, and has both SHO and WHO. It should meet your requirements.
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

  9. #9
    Site Supporter
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnO View Post
    Mike Pannone's Marksmanship Evaluation Course.

    Mike's comments:
    This is my Marksmanship Evaluation Course (MEC). It is based on the old air marshal TPC but it is much more difficult and has some different stages. It was not designed as a course to be practiced. It was designed as a validation and evaluation course. It is also designed using an accuracy and a speed metric that must both be achieved to standard in order to pass the course. By design you cannot shoot outside of your skill level or you will likely fail. The real challenge on this is doing it from concealment. It is an unforgiving and very challenging course of fire… deceivingly so.

    http://www.ctt-solutions.com/wp-cont...core-Sheet.pdf



    For something with less rounds Ken Hackathorn's Wizard Drill


    If you are testing someone Pannone's drill will tell you exactly what they are capable of. Hackathorn's drill is a basic determination of if they are good enough.
    I like both of these a lot for the OP's needs. The Wizard is a quick and easy way to see if someone sucks or not. If they can't pass it, easily, they certainly don't need to bother with a tough qualification. The MEC is an excellent course that doesn't take a ton of time or ammo but still tests what needs to be tested. If there's a serious problem it will show up on the MEC.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter ST911's Avatar
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    Food for thought.

    Set the highest bar you want, but be sure to keep at least one foot on the ground of reality. What is the bell curve of firearms handling proficiency, force, and deadly force problems in your area and houses of worship? Claude's work on negative outcomes and Tom's CCW stats are instructive and applicable here. There's not a lot different about how they apply to church security. Soft skills, safe handling, and simple shooting tasks. Test those with applicable metrics. You can put more guns in the pew and protect the flock without diving into a no-shooter-left-behind approach.

    External standards are great. Make them commonly understood to those around you who might scrutinize. Outside of the shooting community and PF especially, most won't appreciate the FAM-TPC, know who Pannone is, and think D-Platoon is a TV show. Further, any of those standards is well beyond a great many professional gun toters you'd otherwise welcome in or out of uniform. Critics will understand "our security team (or members that go armed) meet the same standard of off-duty/on-duty proficiency as our local PD." That's a pretty good start.
    Last edited by ST911; 03-01-2018 at 11:51 PM.
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