Um...all three? Nothing says you can't dry fire/practice anywhere from wiener dog belly rub distance out to 25 or 50 yards (as long as you set aside time for wiener dog belly rubs, my hot dog tells me thats nonnegotiable).Originally Posted by GJM
Um...all three? Nothing says you can't dry fire/practice anywhere from wiener dog belly rub distance out to 25 or 50 yards (as long as you set aside time for wiener dog belly rubs, my hot dog tells me thats nonnegotiable).
No offense intended, but if your CCW gun is mechanically incapable of good hits at 25yds, you need a different gun. Having been there/done that with the full size M&P's, 25yd accuracy alone was the driving factor in my switch back to Glocks in 2014. Every time I pick up an M&P (I have a good buddy that still shoots them exclusively) I think how good it feels in my hand and I'm tempted to switch back, but the numbers don't lie and unreliable accuracy at 25+ is never a tradeoff that can be made. Hell, I even shoot my 642 at 25yds.
Food Court Apprentice
Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer
Good drill, thanks for sharing it Tom. Ran it a few times this AM.
Nice drill!
Just had the opportunity to shoot on indoor range this afternoon. Had spent this morning on a Rogers range at a state Training Center, running some sequences from “Ready” to learn the system controls on a laptop.
So, Level 3 holster, Gen5 17 with night sights, B8 center on IDPA target.
Made all times, 97 points. First shot from holster a”9”, two 9s support hand. This goes in the drills book, along w/“Wizard”, etc.
Thanks to those who put it together.
I don't intend to come off overly critical as I think it is a good drill that has value and there is merit in the article, but I want to point out some considerations.
Perhaps I need to get out more often, but I almost never see the 3-7 or even 3-5 yard distances looked at as being in the "too easy to train" category. I often see training, especially in LE, where the bulk of practice is being conducted in the 3-7 yard distances, with stints out to 10-15 yards. Much further than that would be the exception. Now perhaps the methodology and approach to training and subsequent practice may need adaptation, which I believe mostly to be accurate, but the too close, or easy to train is not something I usually see.
I am also of the camp that believes training at distance has tremendous value. It is but a component of individual skill and the value should not be overlooked, however, not unlike any other skill, the training needs to be correct in context to overall application and adapted as necessary to address or to solve an existing deficiency. I know it sounds like nitpicking, but I also don't look at "drills" like the El-Pres, Bill Drill, the Test, or even this Five Yard Roundup as a method of practice. I look at them as indicators of performance where we validate or find deficiencies in training and practice which can help guide the actual training and practice from there.
Thanks for the drill, I'll personally give it a run!
That's partially my issue. I have been thinking more about 25 yards and what I need for that. Topic for a different thread.
NOT speaking for Tom. When I took his 3 day Instructor Development Course in 2013 I ran my Gen 3 G19 with RMR, and was one of his early test cases for EDC RDS's, I think this soured him on the concept.. Actually I did fine in the class and the following year in the Advanced Instructor class as well, but Tom did state more than once that he felt the dot was slowing me down at close ranges and from the draw. He was right. I believe I have mostly moved past that now. During his recent podcast on Ballistic Radio RDS pistols were brought up but I don't recall Tom saying anything about them other than that he is seeing quite a few of them in classes these days.
So that I don't go in trouble for derailing the thread, I will bring this back to the 5 yard focus. I don't think the dot is going to help most people there but if well practiced it shouldn't hurt.
Last edited by MVS; 02-27-2018 at 06:54 PM.
Ran it twice. Liked it. Thanks.
About distance - when I was teaching, I might face a close up opponent as if a shooter entered my class room. But then again, the longest distance in our academic building was a 100 yard hallway (I measured it). If there was a shooter down that hallway - what might I do? That long a shot might be an anomaly but they have happened. Thus, practice with both, I would think.
A practical problem for people who shoot indoors is that many ranges won't let you bring your target closer than 7 yards.
Personally I am lukewarm about this test, I don't find the times that challenging, but I understand that even these times could be a reality check for most gun owners. I do think that there is an excellent point within the article, and that point is about mistakes made on easy / close targets. Over-aiming on one hand, vs going ape and starting to point shoot, without ever developing a middle ground of a soft sight pic/target focus/whatever else helps to make aimed but not overaimed hits. I think if we understand that these mistakes are what need to be addressed as a root cause, then the type of drill used or 3 vs 7 yards distances becomes less relevant, although this specific drill could be a good start, especially with its one handed requirements.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
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