The Five Yard Problem

[SiriusBlunder]

Some thoughts on the Tueller Principle/Drill:

The Tueller Drill Myth: Why The 21 Foot Rule Isn’t a Rule At All
https://www.itstactical.com/warcom/f...a-rule-at-all/

The Tueller Drill Revisited
https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/the...rill-revisited

[Oukaapie]

Nice drills, I dry and live fire practice the hell out of 5-7, probably 70%. I typically use 3 inch stickie circles or horizontal post it notes.

[03RN]

I shot these drills at 5 yards. Whenever I spend to much time at 15-25 yards I feel like my first round takes forever to fire when I move up. Recording myself reminds me to do both on a regular basis.

[GJM]

Very interesting topic, and as usual Tom Givens gives us things to consider. My thoughts:

Primarily practicing at 7-25 doesn’t necessarily make you proficient at 3-5 yards.

Primarily practicing at 3-5 is unlikely to make you proficient at 7-50 yards.

You need to ask what your goal is — is it to survive a typical gun fight, develop competition skills, or survive an unlikely gun fight. Answering that question can inform how you organize your shooting practice.

[JHC]

Very interesting topic, and as usual Tom Givens gives us things to consider. My thoughts:

Primarily practicing at 7-25 doesn’t necessarily make you proficient at 3-5 yards.

Primarily practicing at 3-5 is unlikely to make you proficient at 7-50 yards.

You need to ask what your goal is — is it to survive a typical gun fight, develop competition skills, or survive an unlikely gun fight. Answering that question can inform how you organize your shooting practice.

I don't often use my practice time at 3-5 yards but when I've been put there shooting administered standards, the speed adjusts and the hits are there. That said, this cool "Round up" will definitely get some attention. I make a special attempt to have less experienced family shooters get regular time in on 3-5 yard shooting however so they can internalize just how fast they can go and still get hits.

[spinmove_]

Very interesting topic, and as usual Tom Givens gives us things to consider. My thoughts:

Primarily practicing at 7-25 doesn’t necessarily make you proficient at 3-5 yards.

Primarily practicing at 3-5 is unlikely to make you proficient at 7-50 yards.

You need to ask what your goal is — is it to survive a typical gun fight, develop competition skills, or survive an unlikely gun fight. Answering that question can inform how you organize your shooting practice.

Shouldn’t we be striving for all 3?


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[LSP552]

Speed become MUCH more important the closer the engagement. Closeness tends to negate marksmanship skills to a degree and emphasizes speed with acceptable accuracy.

Most anyone can get hits at bad breath range. The key is to get them first. For me personally, if I’m stacking bullets at 5 yards, it tells me I need to shoot faster and that I’m spending too much time seeing more than I need to see for the problem I need to solve.

So many people fail to put an emphasis on the draw. At close range, especially when we might be starting behind the power curve, speed is life.

Good article and addressed a very important issue. Shooting at distance isn’t the same as shooting at ATM range. And like George mentioned above, we should be working to cover all of our potential threats, close and far.

[Duces Tecum]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't 7 yards the minimum reaction distance for an assailant?

There are no do-overs, so there's no minimum reaction distance. React as best you can regardless of the space space between you and the assailant.

[1slow]

ECQC helps one clarify these issues.

[Zincwarrior]

The Five Yard Problem

Of almost 70 student involved shootings, almost 90% occurred in the 3-5 yard distance envelope. If we make it 3-7 yards, that covers over 92% of the incidents. The FBI and DEA have found very similar results in their agent involved shootings. Five yards is about one car length, and is a very common engagement distance.

SWAT Magazine just published an excellent article on how to practice for engagements at this distance and how to measure and gauge your skill in this critical area. See https://www.swatmag.com/article/five...86&vsoid=A9486

Thats the distance I was prepared for. However with Sunderland and the school shootings, I have become increasingly concerned about distances up to 25 yards. My eyesight precludes worrying about further than that. I practice such for competition, but my CC (M&Pc) while great is not a 25
yard gun.