.44 Special loads

[willie]

Some computer software can provide insight into your query, but you probably already know that. Already you and Malamute may be the forum's leading members on working up .44/.45 loads. I hesitate to give too much advice. Though experienced in the area, my views and approaches to arrive at load objectives are dated. For example, I would select a desired velocity level and match it with my chosen bullet. Then I would work up loads using Unique, Herco, and IMR 4227 and chronograph as I went. My knowledge of existing pressure data and awareness of which powder would be subject to pressure spikes would guide me and keep me out of trouble. Plus, I can read pressure signs. When I reached acceptable accuracy and velocity levels in a load that I deemed safe, I would not care if pressures were, for example, 16,000, 17,000, 19,000, or 20,000 psi. In modern .44 spl cases and in a modern revolver, it would not matter(to me)if the pressure range fell within the interval of 16,000 to 20,000 psi.

I may have more spare time than you. Let me also research your question in order to locate new data.

[Tokarev]

Two sources for modern (aka hot) 44 Special data:

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/4...%20Special.pdf

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/4...%20Special.pdf

[Wayne Dobbs]

The problem is there's no source for 19k psi loads. At least few that have been verified. Pearce did a great writeup with loads from mild to wild but I don't believe there was any mention made of how he came about his pressure specs.

I wonder how much effort it would take to get get a powder company to work up some tested data. It would be published as "modern guns only" not unlike what is done now with 45 Colt and 45 Colt "Ruger only" data.

Am I the only one who's interested in modern verified data?



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I've also paid lots of attention to Brian Pearce's .44 Special data and wonder how he makes his various tiered pressure assertions. I use two loads in a 4" S&W 624 that are in his writings. Both use a 429421 or equivalent and both work great. The Skeeter load is classic at 7.5 grains of Unique and the one I call Brian's classic of 8.0 Power Pistol is simply excellent. Both will kill anything walking on this continent and do it well. Both give great accuracy, with an edge to the Power Pistol load.

I would like to know the actual pressures, even though both appear moderate.

[Tokarev]

It is interesting to me that the 44 Special is really a wildcat rather than a SAAMI cartridge. It seems most 44spl aficionados handload and those who handload do so to higher than SAAMI pressure.

I assume Mr Pearce is using computer software to get his pressure measurements although he could have access to a pressure test barrel. I wish he'd mention what he used.

Not that it matters, I suppose, as I've used several of this mid- and high-end loads without too much worry.

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[Malamute]

I may be mistaken, but I believe that actual electronic strain gauges are now priced in the range many people own them. I recall reading of people discussing them and their readings, but never delved into the details about them. They attach to the gun in question and are supposed to be able to measure the pressure of the load fired, unlike the old school pressure barrels with hole for the copper crusher. I dont think they require a dedicated pressure barrel for electronic instruments.


Edit: Like this https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

[Malamute]

Two sources for modern (aka hot) 44 Special data:

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/4...%20Special.pdf

http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/4...%20Special.pdf

Thanks for posting these links, I havent seen them before and they answered some questions I had about various components and loads.

[Tokarev]

Edit: Like this https://www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

Something like that would be extremely handy, no doubt.

[Tokarev]

The Skeeter load is classic at 7.5 grains of Unique and the one I call Brian's classic of 8.0 Power Pistol is simply excellent.

I believe Taffin has a "Skeeteresque" load of a 240-250gr bullet over 7.5gr of Universal. Also a pretty good load.

Accuracy-wise I've had the best luck with my 3" Ruger using lighter bullets. Stuff like the 200gr and 210gr Gold Dot have been great. There have been a few exceptions but most 240gr jacketed and 240-250gr cast bullets have been rather disappointing.

Speaking of the 200gr Gold Dot; I've found that pushing this bullet to high velocity results in keyholing and outrageously poor accuracy. Not just in the Ruger but also in my 4" 629. I don't know how Pearce is getting his results unless Speer has made some changes to the Gold Dot over the years. Maybe softened the bullet up to get better expansion at lower Special velocity maybe.



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[Malamute]

Already you and Malamute may be the forum's leading members on working up .44/.45 loads.
.

I'm certain theres many people here with far more loading experience than I have. I find something that works and stop. There may be better stuff, but if Ive found something that works for me I just use it. Ive just recently begun trying some different stuff in 44 mag and spl.

I believe Taffin has a "Skeeteresque" load of a 240-250gr bullet over 7.5gr of Universal. Also a pretty good load.

Accuracy-wise I've had the best luck with my 3" Ruger using lighter bullets. Stuff like the 200gr and 210gr Gold Dot have been great. There have been a few exceptions but most 240gr jacketed and 240-250gr cast bullets have been rather disappointing.

Speaking of the 200gr Gold Dot; I've found that pushing this bullet to high velocity results in keyholing and outrageously poor accuracy. Not just in the Ruger but also in my 4" 629. I don't know how Pearce is getting his results unless Speer has made some changes to the Gold Dot over the years. Maybe softened the bullet up to get better expansion at lower Special velocity maybe.

In what few loads Ive tried Universal in, it seem to pretty much duplicate Unique in load data/performance.

Interesting about the experience with the 200 gr Gold Dots not shooting well. I asked about medium level 200 gr loads on the levergun forum and all responses I recall liked them in carbines and pistols, and often at higher velocities. I loaded a few 200 gr Speer non-Gold Dot JHP to try in 44 mag at 10 grs unique (Later figured out 9 probably would have done what I wanted) and Im intending to try some in 44 spl in medium level loads, about 1000 fps. I keep forgetting I have Universal, I should try similar loads to what Ive been doing with Unique with the 200s.

[Tokarev]

Don't get me wrong. The 200gr Dot shoots great at 44 Special speeds. It just doesn't like to be pushed to 1,000+ FPS in my experience.

The 210gr Dot, on the other hand, seems to be just as accurate but not too picky about higher speed. But I never could push the 210 fast enough to reliably expand in gel. Then again, I never played with it too much. One of these days I'll probably have to revisit.