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Thread: .44 Special loads

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck38 View Post
    Oh, do tell. My M22-4 needs a job.
    If you want to go old school, then get a 250-grain SWC moving about 900 fps. If not, then you'd probably be fine with any of the heavier .45 ACP loads on Doc's list if they shoot well.

    I had a 4" Model 625 Model of 1989, and I found that a roll crimp gave the best accuracy and velocity. Unfortunately, getting a roll crimp was a pain in the ass. A standard 45 ACP die will roll crimp cases if you screw it down far enough, but only after applying a very strong taper crimp. That crushed the driving band of the SWC bullets I was using and ruined accuracy.

    A 45 Colt die will roll crimp cases without the taper crimp, but it's too long for a 45 AR case mouth to reach the crimping shoulder, so I had a buddy with a machine shop cut the bottom 3/4" off of an extra 45 Colt die. Presto, instant proper roll crimp. The ammo I loaded with that die shot well and did about 850 fps in a 4" barrel, which should be enough for deer. I also had to trim RP 45 AR brass to a consistent length, as it was pretty sloppy as it came. Starline is probably more consistent, but I've been out of the 45 AR game for about a decade now so I can't say.

    The whole point of getting a 625 was to simplify logistics and shoot 45 ACP ammo, but it shot 45 AR ammo so much better that it wasn't worth the trouble. I ended up selling it and hunting deer with a 5" M-629 Classic, which is pretty much ideal for the task.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  2. #12
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    @okie john - Thanks!

    I found a box of 500 of 240-grain .45 LSWCs years ago and loaded them into .45AR brass over an unremembered charge of 473AA. They worked fine in a 1917. I still have about 130 of them left, need to try them in the 22-4. This bullet seems to be perfect for the AR, and I probably wouldn't have to worry about a different POA/POI since the 22-4 shoots 230 RNL to the sights now.

  3. #13
    No problem. That slug should be fine, but check your POI at 35-50 yards if you load it hot. Velocity can alter your POI out there.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  4. #14
    Site Supporter entropy's Avatar
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    This site is such a great resource. OP, I think you’re my brother from another mother.

    Pretty much the same exact thoughts and path I have been travelling, difference is I started with the 3” and am ordering the 5” while its still available. My goals are the same as well. A stout 250gr LSWC load for serious wilderness issues and a more mild one for general purpose. I found the 3” GP I have likes the cast bullets at .431. I get my best accuracy there. I’ve experimented with jacketed and coated but cannot seem to get the same results. Powder wise, Unique and 2400 seem to work the best for me. 6.5gr of the Unique gives me about 700fps while 16.0gr of the 2400 yields about 1050 from the 3” Ruger. I’d love to find a slightly different bullet design for the lighter general purpose load. In addition, the lighter charge of Unique has given me issues with unburned flakes under the star. I’d like to find something a bit more clean burning.

    I like your idea of the nickel brass. Where did you find that?? I have issues enough finding .44spl brass of any kind locally. Best I recall, I’ve never seen it online at the usual places like Grafs etc.

    The only other thing in the works for me is I would like to pick up a like chambered lever gun to compliment the revolvers. It would be nice to find a load workable in both (with perhaps maybe .44mag loads for the rifle if needed. On that end, I’m leaning towards a cheaper Rossi, as my thoughts for it are a “working gun” that would be treated like my Stihls...not pampered, but neither abused. Lastly, how are you likeing that 5” GP after a few months of playing with it? I still an happy with the 3”, but I can see where and extra couple inches of barrel would help my eyes, especially in the woods. I carry the 3” (with either the GD or SIG loading) quite a bit as a CCW rig. In a DeSantis Thumbbreak, it rides nice and hides nice...even for its size.

    Thanks again for a timely thread. Eager to hear your response and more from others.

    Best
    Last edited by entropy; 02-24-2018 at 08:21 AM.

  5. #15
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    @entropy -

    Buy your .44 Special and .45 AR brass from Starline and never look back. They make superb brass in these two calibers (and many others).
    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
    Co-owner Hardwired Tactical Shooting (HiTS)

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post

    I like your idea of the nickel brass. Where did you find that?? I have issues enough finding .44spl brass of any kind locally. Best I recall, I’ve never seen it online at the usual places like Grafs etc.

    The only other thing in the works for me is I would like to pick up a like chambered lever gun to compliment the revolvers. It would be nice to find a load workable in both (with perhaps maybe .44mag loads for the rifle if needed. On that end, I’m leaning towards a cheaper Rossi, as my thoughts for it are a “working gun” that would be treated like my Stihls...not pampered, but neither abused. Lastly, how are you likeing that 5” GP after a few months of playing with it? I still an happy with the 3”, but I can see where and extra couple inches of barrel would help my eyes, especially in the woods. I carry the 3” (with either the GD or SIG loading) quite a bit as a CCW rig. In a DeSantis Thumbbreak, it rides nice and hides nice...even for its size.

    Thanks again for a timely thread. Eager to hear your response and more from others.

    Best
    I second the recommendation of Starline brass. I've had excellent luck with it.

    I dunno how much research you've done into the Rossi leverguns. I've been tempted by them more than once, however, they are reported widely to have pretty hit or miss quality. Some of them are more like a lever gun 80% parts kit, and by the time folks are done screwing around with them and sending them to Stevezguns and such, they have a rifle that costs more than a Marlin but has Rossi resale value. There's also no provision for a receiver mounted sight, except for an outfit that makes one to replace the safety on top of the bolt.

    Also, Marlin is supposed to be releasing some new 16" 1894's in .44 Mag.

    Just food for thought
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  7. #17
    Member Crazy Dane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    This site is such a great resource. OP, I think you’re my brother from another mother.

    Pretty much the same exact thoughts and path I have been travelling, difference is I started with the 3” and am ordering the 5” while its still available. My goals are the same as well. A stout 250gr LSWC load for serious wilderness issues and a more mild one for general purpose. I found the 3” GP I have likes the cast bullets at .431. I get my best accuracy there. I’ve experimented with jacketed and coated but cannot seem to get the same results. Powder wise, Unique and 2400 seem to work the best for me. 6.5gr of the Unique gives me about 700fps while 16.0gr of the 2400 yields about 1050 from the 3” Ruger. I’d love to find a slightly different bullet design for the lighter general purpose load. In addition, the lighter charge of Unique has given me issues with unburned flakes under the star. I’d like to find something a bit more clean burning.

    I like your idea of the nickel brass. Where did you find that?? I have issues enough finding .44spl brass of any kind locally. Best I recall, I’ve never seen it online at the usual places like Grafs etc.

    The only other thing in the works for me is I would like to pick up a like chambered lever gun to compliment the revolvers. It would be nice to find a load workable in both (with perhaps maybe .44mag loads for the rifle if needed. On that end, I’m leaning towards a cheaper Rossi, as my thoughts for it are a “working gun” that would be treated like my Stihls...not pampered, but neither abused. Lastly, how are you likeing that 5” GP after a few months of playing with it? I still an happy with the 3”, but I can see where and extra couple inches of barrel would help my eyes, especially in the woods. I carry the 3” (with either the GD or SIG loading) quite a bit as a CCW rig. In a DeSantis Thumbbreak, it rides nice and hides nice...even for its size.

    Thanks again for a timely thread. Eager to hear your response and more from others.

    Best

    Hi brother from another mother,

    I picked up the nickel brass at midway and will use it to load my stout loads, https://www.midwayusa.com/product/94...ass-44-special. The other bullet I got in from Montana Bullet Works looks like it will be a thumper. I definitely plan on loading some of these in the stout range. I think the majority of what I load, regardless of bullet, will be in the 1000 fps range. I think I am going to stick with 2400 for powder. I am finding the Unique is very dirty and I'm finding unburnt powder even with the heavy loads. I do have a jug of H110 I may try but I'm not really sure what I would gain. I still need to work up some shot shell loads. I hope to get number 6 shot to pattern well for the grouse and bunnies.

    As far as the 5 inch barrel goes, I feel it gives me an advantage for longer shots. I have been able to keep most of my shots in a 6 inch circle at 75 yards, off the bench and hopefully with some practice, I'll be able to take it on out to 100, if my eyes will let me. I do have intentions of carrying this pistol as a primary during whitetail season. I am really happy with the Cattleman holster from Simple Rugged. The way this holster covers the trigger guard makes it very secure. The hammer thong is just extra security. The leather is still stiff enough that it doesn't collapse and reholstering is not a problem, it may soften up over time. I hung it on a Triple K cartridge belt, while the belt isn't perfect it will do until I find something better. I have worn this setup for several miles of walking the dogs and it is unobtrusive and comfortable.

    I did draw my elk tag for Wyoming so that is going to hinder my firearms purchasing for this year but I still plan on picking up a 3 inch model for social purposes . My research into leaver guns as a companion brings me full circle back to Marlin every time(unless Henry comes out with a side gate). I looked into the Pumas and found that it seems they don't like the Special length cartridges as much as the Marlin. Grab-A-Gun has had the best prices on the Marlins https://grabagun.com/marlin-1894-44m...-bl-70400.html and feels this gives me the most value for the dollar. I'm just worried what the Remington bankruptcy is going to do to Marlin.

    The weather here is starting to warm and if it will ever stop raining, I will put in some long days of load development. I will post results here. I just wish I had the resources for a few gel tests.

    Happy shooting, Forrest

  8. #18
    Site Supporter entropy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the return reply and comments. I’m running a bit low on the Oregon Trail LSWC I’m currently loading so just might copy you on the Keith (can’t go wrong there) and the “stretched wadcutters” as well. I’ve had the same issues with some unburned flakes of Unique, but haven’t tried much beyond that and the 2400 to be honest. I have H110 and Blue Dot on the shelf as well. I’m not adverse to trying something else either...should probably look into that.

    Thanks for the smack on the head with the brass. Sure enough, looked at the Midway page and there’s a drop down for choosing either brass or nickel. Doh! I do the same with .38spl...nickel is the hotter loads, brass the plinkers. Makes it easy.

    As far as the lever guns go, I’m currently stuck on the Winchester profile. A nice octogon rifle would be nice, but just can’t justify the money for a working gun that will spend more time against a tree getting covered in saw dust than sitting on a fireplace mantle being admired. Regardless, the Ruger 5” is further up the “want list” at this point in time simply because of its limited availability.

    Thanks again for the info. Post when you experiment with the bullets and I’ll do same.

  9. #19
    Site Supporter entropy's Avatar
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    Ordered up some of those Keith-style semi wadcutters and the “elongated wadcutters” from Montana Bullet Works. Also ordered some of the 240gr Lyman hollowpoints that were discussed in the GP100 thread in the revolver forum by Tokarev. This should keep me going for a bit. Will report back.

    How does everyone feel on the strength of these GP100 frames? I’m not trying to turn it into a .44mag, but want the most I can get from it. I have some loads that use 16.0gr of 2400 with a 240gr LSWC. Pretty stiff. They are not “every day loads” or even “every day woods loads” for me but specific if I think I will need something more and the Mossberg is too much to carry. It seems the GP frame is at least on par with the Blackhawk frame no? On some other forums there is discussion about shying away from anything above the Pearce Level 2 loads. That seems a bit dramatic to me. I’m not going to be running hundreds of the 16gr 2400s thru the gun.

    I also found a nice link to the LASC. There is HOURS of “good readin’ and whiskey drinkin’” articles on this link. The Glen Fryxell stuff is particularly interesting. Enjoy!!

    http://www.lasc.us/ArticleIndex.htm

  10. #20
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    The two loads will do he same thing. The slower one will permit more practice before fatigue sets in and is less likely to cause flinching. Very important is the fact that the slower load will allow faster follow up shots. If you are not an accomplished double action shooter, I urge you to learn the art. Even lighter loads will permit practice without fatigue and flinching while you learn the technique.

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