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Thread: USPSA Production rules change

  1. #21
    New Member Peally's Avatar
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    No thanks, the limit is fine. We don't need production and Prod-10 (which would happen based on HQ's weird justification for not finally killing L10).

    Some of us like stage planning and reloading
    Last edited by Peally; 02-21-2018 at 12:38 PM.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  2. #22
    Site Supporter Les Pepperoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemas2 View Post
    A level playing field, production is not. A Glock is not a CZ is not a Beretta. I don't think most aftermarket parts will have a noticeable effect to the field anymore than different guns do.
    Yeah... Beretta's are THE WORST. Total disadvantage!


  3. #23
    Site Supporter Les Pepperoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peally View Post
    No thanks, the limit is fine. We don't need production and Prod-10 (which would happen based on HQ's weird justification for not finally killing L10).

    Some of us like stage planning and reloading
    I like that challenge too...

    Personally, I kinda wish the divisions were more like: Lim10 (minor scoring), Limited Minor, Limited, CO, Open.

    The stuff people do to the guns doesn't really matter, except to them, and the outcomes are still largely the same.

    E.g. Gutt still shredded the hell out of everyone when he ran a GLOCK... (as me how I know)

  4. #24
    Site Supporter Les Pepperoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peally View Post
    I don't, I can't think of many more boring ways to burn an afternoon than tinker with a handgun; just cleaning it is a chore. Doesn't matter though.
    Ok... So I was wrong. LOL. You and Eric Kamps do the really stock, stock gun thing. A lot of dudes spend a lot of time tuning shit up, tho. I agree it doesn't matter overall, but may matter to them. I mean, there is a reason I like running a D-spring in my gun and skinny VZ grips...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peally View Post
    Time to Doodie this up.

    The real issue is the logic/approach HQ used to justify the changes. We had full fledged cheaters and first DNROI issued conflicting edicts enabling their behaviour, then HQ used that as an excuse that the rules were far too complex, and tweaked the rules to be more favorable towards said cheaters.

    The logical approach of penalizing or banning known cheating assholes (like any normal sport would have done) is apparently lost. With issues that actually need to be corrected this isn't a good look for the sport and I doubt the tweaks and under the table "clarifications" we've been suffering through will stop here. A person might get the suspicion that USPSA was more interested in desperate membership retention than it was enforcing the rules as they were plainly written.

    I'm guessing most people have already been following the derp train behind this topic though. Hopefully we can waste less time with this shit now and fix our popper rules, our classifiers HHFs, and PCC's stupid tweaks (same classifiers but no weak hand allowed always makes me roll my eyes).

    If it stays the way it is I think it'll be OK. If HQ decides to make another change in 3 months it might be time to consider shooting something else though. I'm hoping that doesn't happen, we've already been changing things way faster than they can be properly handled.
    I totally agree with this. The problem, again, was enforcement. It was impossible to find a "cheater" and, even then, did it really matter?

    I SO wish they'd fix the popper rules...

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    The thing I'm most frustrated about is they stuck to the 10 round limit. This isn't single stack/revolver, and we're far past an assault weapons ban. I would much rather they just go to either 15-17 rounds OR a mag length limit (i.e. if the gun/mag fits in the box, fill it up.
    Until we eliminate ass-alt weapons bans at the state levels, we need to keep some of the limited cap divisions.

    I know there is a state limit in effect now, but if you live in NJ and want to compete at your own Area 8 match in PA or VA, you're already limited to what you can shoot, unless you own mags out of state, or borrow mags (and pray they work).

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Les Pepperoni View Post
    I SO wish they'd fix the popper rules...
    What particular popper rule are you referring to?

  7. #27
    Site Supporter Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gio View Post
    The thing I'm most frustrated about is they stuck to the 10 round limit. This isn't single stack/revolver, and we're far past an assault weapons ban. I would much rather they just go to either 15-17 rounds OR a mag length limit (i.e. if the gun/mag fits in the box, fill it up.
    Thats the whole point of Production-to compete with IDPA in that aspect.

  8. #28
    Site Supporter Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    I SO wish they'd fix the popper rules...
    What would you change?
    Last edited by Zincwarrior; 02-21-2018 at 01:05 PM.

  9. #29
    Site Supporter Les Pepperoni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    Thats the whole point of Production-to compete with IDPA in that aspect.
    ... and I think that IDPA 10-round limit makes some sense in the context of that game where stages are capped to 18 rds.
    It tests some reloads during field courses.

    In a 10-rd limited division, it does the same, but it gets pretty contrived: race gear and belts with endless mag pouches, etc.
    Telling a new guy that he needs 4 extra carriers and 3 extra mags is NOT competing with IDPA anymore, really...

  10. #30
    Site Supporter Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    I don't care about IDPA, personally. I like Production because it's a great game. I like the added emphasis on accuracy required by minor PF + 10 round mags. I like that striker and TDA guns can compete on a pretty level playing field. And I like that I don't have to use a 1911/2011.
    "BJJ is sort of like nonconsensual yoga"
    "You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

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