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Thread: Velocities of Some 9x19 124 Grain Training Ammo

  1. #1
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    Velocities of Some 9x19 124 Grain Training Ammo

    I usually use my handloads for practice, but I know that most instructors prefer you to use factory ammo for classes and I've got a class coming up. I decided to get different brands of training ammo to see how they match up with my carry ammo, Federal HST 124 grain +P. The pistol I used was my CZ-75B of '96 vintage with the stock 4.7" barrel, which has about 10k of mostly jacketed ammo through it. The following resulted from firing one five-shot string from each type of ammo. Data are shown as average velocity/standard deviation. I'm aware that one five-shot string is inadequate for precision, but I was looking more for ballpark-level information. Here's what I found:

    Federal HST 124 +P: 1179/11
    PPU 124 NATO: 1185/20
    Independence 124: 1111/10
    Federal American Eagle 124: 1074/10
    Winchester 124 NATO: 1164/9
    MEN 124 NATO: 1148/9
    PMC Bronze 124: 1061/3 (not a typo)
    Blazer Brass 124: 1053/16
    Fiocchi 115: 1172/13

    Some notes: I didn't try these for accuracy due to time constraints. The American Eagle had the least felt recoil, the PMC recoiled about like the NATO-spec stuff, and the rest were in between. Felt recoil of the NATO-spec stuff was unsurprisingly indistinguishable from the HST. There were zero failures of any kind with the rounds I shot today. While I wasn't testing for accuracy, I did use a common aiming spot for these, and the rounds impacted within one sixish-inch group at 25 yards with no effort at precision.

    Going forward, I'll probably use the Winchester NATO-spec ammo for classes since it's among the cheapest out there, is alway available, shoots well in my 9x19s (I've used it before) and replicates the performance of the HST load. I need to try for accuracy with the MEN and PPU loads to see how they do.

    Two loads I wanted to try but weren't available when I ordered are the S&B and Lawman 124 grain offerings.

    Thanks for reading!

  2. #2
    The Winchester NATO loading is my preferred practice round since it has similar recoil to the 124 gr +p Gold Dots I like for defensive use and it seems to have similar POA/POI as far as I can tell. The fact it's pretty cheap and easy to find also helps.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by will_1400 View Post
    The Winchester NATO loading is my preferred practice round since it has similar recoil to the 124 gr +p Gold Dots I like for defensive use and it seems to have similar POA/POI as far as I can tell. The fact it's pretty cheap and easy to find also helps.
    89.99 per 500 shipped from Brownells.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TYR View Post
    89.99 per 500 shipped from Brownells.

    https://gun.deals/node/525236

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    Ordered, thanks!
    Last edited by revchuck38; 02-20-2018 at 07:41 PM.

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    Additional Ammo through the CZ-75B; Results through My New PX4 Full Size

    I managed to glom onto some of the ammo I wasn't able to find last time and run it through the CZ. Again, data are presented as average velocity/standard deviation:

    S&B 124 grain: 1121/7
    Speer Lawman 124 grain: 1080/9

    I just picked up a full-size Beretta PX4, my first new gun in ten years, and ran all the ammo I had over it to see the difference between its 4" barrel and the 4.7" barrel of the CZ. My chronograph may be dying; strings with an asterix indicate a weird velocity in there, 50-100 fps below the others with no difference in felt recoil or report. That yielded lower average velocity and much larger SD.

    HST 124 grain +P: 1141/42*
    Speer Lawman 124 grain: 1048/10
    S&B 124 grain: 1096/2
    Fiocchi 115 grain: 1133/17
    MEN 124 grain NATO spec: 1118/7
    American Eagle 124 grain: 1013/27*
    PMC 124 grain: 1014/11
    Independence 124 grain: 1050/31*
    Winchester 124 grain NATO spec: 1132/6

    So, there's about a 25-40 fps loss in the shorter barrel, or about what one would expect. If I were to shoot the PX4 in a match where it had to make power factor, I'd avoid the AE and PMC in this gun, though they'd be fine in the CZ.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck38 View Post
    I managed to glom onto some of the ammo I wasn't able to find last time and run it through the CZ. Again, data are presented as average velocity/standard deviation:

    S&B 124 grain: 1121/7
    Speer Lawman 124 grain: 1080/9

    I just picked up a full-size Beretta PX4, my first new gun in ten years, and ran all the ammo I had over it to see the difference between its 4" barrel and the 4.7" barrel of the CZ. My chronograph may be dying; strings with an asterix indicate a weird velocity in there, 50-100 fps below the others with no difference in felt recoil or report. That yielded lower average velocity and much larger SD.

    HST 124 grain +P: 1141/42*
    Speer Lawman 124 grain: 1048/10
    S&B 124 grain: 1096/2
    Fiocchi 115 grain: 1133/17
    MEN 124 grain NATO spec: 1118/7
    American Eagle 124 grain: 1013/27*
    PMC 124 grain: 1014/11
    Independence 124 grain: 1050/31*
    Winchester 124 grain NATO spec: 1132/6

    So, there's about a 25-40 fps loss in the shorter barrel, or about what one would expect. If I were to shoot the PX4 in a match where it had to make power factor, I'd avoid the AE and PMC in this gun, though they'd be fine in the CZ.
    Your velocities look low across the board. Most 124 grain +p I have shot out of 4" guns is right at or slightly above 1200 fps. A lot of those 124 grain factory offerings should be up around 1100 fps out of a 4" gun. Your CZ should definitely be getting high velocities. I think you need a new chrono or you may have a setup issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leroy View Post
    Your velocities look low across the board. Most 124 grain +p I have shot out of 4" guns is right at or slightly above 1200 fps. A lot of those 124 grain factory offerings should be up around 1100 fps out of a 4" gun. Your CZ should definitely be getting high velocities. I think you need a new chrono or you may have a setup issue.
    You could well be right. It's a Pro Chrono Plus and about 15 years old, and spent about the last eight years unused. OTOH, back when I was an active IDPA competitor (made it to SSR Expert) I used it to make sure my handloads made the old SSR 125 PF and my velocities were usually pretty close to whatever they used at the check station at major matches. I wish I could plug it into my laptop and update the firmware like I can with my cycling and running Garmins.

    Also, some guns are usually "faster" than others. This was noted long ago with Glocks usually having higher velocities with the same box of ammo than other autoloaders with the same length barrels. In my own experience, I've got nine four-inch .38/.357 revolvers. Most of them are pretty close in velocity from the same load, but my N frames (M27-3 and M28-2) are about 80 fps slower.

    Then there's the lot-to-lot variation in factory ammo. The HST I shot in the CZ in the first post is a different box than the one I used in the PX4. Most of the rounds through the PX4 matched the velocity of the ones I shot in the CZ, but one came in 100 fps slower - hence the asterisk. Ammo from that box probably would've been over 1200 fps from the CZ. Also, my experience with factory ammo advertised velocities is that there is often more "advertised" than "velocity".

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    Just a quick update...I recently bought a Walther P99C and took it to the range yesterday with the chronograph. It's got a 3.5" barrel, and I thought it'd be interesting to compare velocities with the PX4 (4") and CZ-75B (4.7"). Ammo used was Winchester NATO-spec 124-grain FMJ and Federal HST 124-grain +P, both from the same lots as I ran through the PX4 with the Winchester being the same lot as I ran through the CZ. Again, it's the average velocity and SD of one five-round string.

    HST - 1172/13
    Win NATO - 1146/10

    Note that these velocities basically match those from the CZ and exceed those from the Beretta. My guess is that it's due to relative bore and chamber dimensions; Walthers have the reputation of being at the smaller end of allowable specs and Berettas being at the larger end.

    As an aside, the Walther is comfortable shooting from a standing position, including one-handed. It's much less so from a bench.

  9. #9
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    Updating this thread with a couple more, Magtech and Fiocchi 124-grain FMJ:

    Fiocchi 124-grain - P99C: 1085/23; PX4: 1120/27; CZ: 1135/21

    Magtech 124-grain - P99C: 1107/24; PX4: 1114/18; CZ: 1150/18

  10. #10
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    Adding another one: Browning 124-grain FMJ, 1090 fps average for ten rounds from my PX4, SD was 12. This is the stuff that Academy sells for ~$26/box of 150 rounds, which makes it about $173 for a thousand rounds. I bought two boxes so I'd have enough factory ammo to get through Murphy's ASAT class in a couple of weeks.

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